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by **Alex P** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:11 pm

Another person trying to make a name for himself - really "in 2002 I carried a box of blood for Rasmussen" yeah yeah, lets get the rope out now and string him up..... yawn..

by **richv** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:15 pm

If Boonen says on live television that Evans is the first clean rider in the tour I wouldn't be too hasty to assume that Contador is clean.

Mind you I would take some convincing that more than half a dozen of them are properly clean. It's like watching a car accident about to happen at the moment. :evil:

by **Rob C** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:48 pm

I can't take it anymore, I've stayed quiet for too long trying to keep the suspicion going that I may not be a fool. I need to know how it is that all the druggies on the tour manage to evade detection??? It's doing my head in...

by **richv** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:19 pm

It's a matter of money and research. Take as an example haemocrit levels which tend to be pretty important (the timescale may be slightly out but it's roughly right).

The Finnish endurance athletes knew the benefit of blood doping (pumping some extra red blood cells in to increase oxygen carrying capacity) in the 1970s. I'm not sure it was banned then :?:

but it soon was and it came with all sorts of problems, obtaining 'clean' red blood cells, storage when competing abroad ...

Come the 1980s someone invents EPO. Boosts red blood cells and no tests to detect it. Becomes the drug of choice, much easier and cleaner then blood doping.

1994 :?:

and tests are being developed to detect EPO. Rumour has it that the Olympics (where testing was first used) returned so many positives they were buried.

Word quickly gets round EPO is no longer 'safe' close to competition. Still used a bit for out of competition preparation (testing easily avoided out of competition) and timescales are well known for clearing EPO.

The smarter cookies move back to blood doping for in-competition use. Some rumours that veterinary products being used which don't have the hang up of requiring freezing :cry:

Rumours that top teams put in place logistic systems to deliver blood products to teams during the tour. Preference is for third party blood which doesn't have the detrimental effect on training of drawing own blood (and possible cock-up of taking blood out of competition which may have EPO .... traces).

Until 2004 :?:

impossible to detect third party blood of right group. Test finally developed in time for Olympics and Tyler Hamilton is high profile doper caught by this method.

Athletes then move on to removing own blood for re-use. Have to be careful to make sure removed blood is free of other drugs. Also removing and re-using leads to classic 'cock-ups' of mislabelling and wrong blood being pumped in.

Tests presently known about can't detect 'own-blood' transfusions although it may be that a test has been developed to tell difference between 'old' red cells and fresh red cells (hence Vino's positive - although the story isn't particularly clear there yet).

Unless you're entirely up to date with medical research who knows what the current 'booster' is. The one thing you can be sure of is that Ferarri will be far more familiar with that research then any of us.

by **Alex P** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:32 am

Here we go again....

by **Rob C** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:45 am

[quote="RobC"]I can't take it anymore, I've stayed quiet for too long trying to keep the suspicion going that I may not be a fool. I need to know how it is that all the druggies on the tour manage to evade detection??? It's doing my head in...

by **Will** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:40 am

as i understand it you re-inject the red blood cells from your own blood, thereby boosting the haematocrit level beyond normal levels

the reason that approach is better than using someone else's blood is because it is harder to detect - it's your blood after all

it seems the only possible way you can test is to examine the age of the red blood cells, and so identify the older re-injected ones

by **Dombo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:28 pm

So, you're telling me that pretty much all I need to do to progress from just being able to hold a conversation in the CR 18s to leading the training group at 25mph is take out an armful of blood, whirl the bottle around my head a few times to separate the red bits (surely lemon juice would do this like with milk?) , stick it in the fridge (away from the bottle of V8) fro a few weeks, reinject it, shove a thumbload of steroidal acne cream up my jacksie, and snort some old asthma inhalers?

Bl**dy hell! Boots here I come! :lol:

by **Toks** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:09 pm

[quote="Dombo"]So, you're telling me that pretty much all I need to do to progress from just being able to hold a conversation in the CR 18s to leading the training group at 25mph is take out an armful of blood, whirl the bottle around my head a few times to separate the red bits (surely lemon juice would do this like with milk?) , stick it in the fridge (away from the bottle of V8) fro a few weeks, reinject it, shove a thumbload of steroidal acne cream up my jacksie, and snort some old asthma inhalers?

Bl**dy hell! Boots here I come! :lol:

by **Richard (Apples)** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:17 pm

[quote]Bl**dy hell! Boots here I come!

by **sid_day** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:48 pm

I saw one character having a good go toke his inhaler before a beastway race a couple of years ago.

That was when I was still in sports.

by **mrP(Boonen)VT** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:56 pm

RichV seems to know an awful lot about this, and his performances have been a bit rapid of late .. :shock:

Better watch out for the CTT tests :roll:

by **Elliot M** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:22 pm

a year or so ago someone linked to a public furum dedicated to doping - and there were a couple of US riders talking casually about their lonmg term drug programmes. they were 4th cats!

by **richv** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:07 pm

[quote="mrpvt"]RichV seems to know an awful lot about this, and his performances have been a bit rapid of late .. :shock:

Better watch out for the CTT tests :roll:

by **richv** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:21 pm

On a more serious note given the reasonably easy access there seems to be to PEDs I would be very surprised if some 4th cats didn't try dabbling with it.

Caffeine use is remarkably common place (I know of riders who openly state that they overdose on proplus before they race) and other less pleasant but still legal performance enhancing methods are openly discussed (does anyone know the side-effects of sodium bicarb use for lactic acid buffering?).

With such things being legal I would be surprised if people didn't overstep the line for a bit of glory no matter how sad it is.

You may not be able to stop it - but by treating cheats with the disdain they deserve and punishing those who try to profit from cheating properly you may be able to dissuade some individuals from trying to do it.

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