British Cycling talent team identification session

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Re: British Cycling talent team identification session

Postby Andrew G » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:31 am

[quote="Toks"][quote="Andrew G"]from what i gather it's not a sprint test it's an ultimate power test. Much different from sprint ability.
Are you pulling my leg now? :shock: Dude if you're giving absolutely everything you've got for 6 secs that absolutley is sprinting! Of course its absolute power because as we know the largest power output you can deliver on a bike is from a standing start. Its about the recruitment of muscular power hence skinny endurance types won't generally fair so well.

Not leg pulling Toks. How many times do you sprint from a standing start? I also bet that in the same test a lot of breakaway specialists (say Jens Voight) would produce a good power figure yet in Jens' case he can't sprint for toffee. I bet Cancellara has a fair output in this type of test yet he's no sprinter either.
Power but also, as per Huw's comment about the lighter girl who didn't hit the magic number still being referred, they are taking size in to account and therefore power to weight. A skinny endurance type who is of sufficient standard to get in to the programme would still probably be putting out a reasonable power figure that would get them noticed.
Despite the various criticism thrown up here by some I'd say that judging by the results the GB team are producing, and the way their programme is being looked at to be copied by others, that they tend to know a bit about what they are doing and it is producing the results. As for the comments about those that nearly got missed, that is a circular argument and you could also ask how many would have been missed. Regardless of sport you can always point to some examples of those that were overlooked by one club/team, or nearly didn't get picked up.
I'm not saying that it is perfect (what is) but if you think it has fatal flaws what would you suggest is done differently? I'm sure they'd like to know and you'd probably be invited in to the team to assist them.
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Re: British Cycling talent team identification session

Postby Toks » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:32 pm

[quote="Andrew G"]
How many times do you sprint from a standing start?
Starting stand sprints will definitley be part of a track sprinter training regime and is designed to improve maximum power output over the duration. Although the girls aren't sprinting as in a race. You're stomping on the pedals as hard as you can to get a peak power - thats essentially what you're doing in a sprint
[quote="Andrew G"]
I'm not saying that it is perfect (what is) but if you think it has fatal flaws what would you suggest is done differently? I'm sure they'd like to know and you'd probably be invited in to the team to assist them.
Its nice of you to suggest I might have something to teach the BCF coaching staff. Oops no you're being facetious - I get it :lol: At what point did I suggest that there were any fatal flaws. Huw acknowledged the point I made and is clearly well aware that the testing protocol does tend to favour sprinter types. If Huw recognises this as a BCF coach then I'm sure other senior coaching staff are aware of this. So I don't expect to start receiving "come and help us" emails from BCF.
[quote="Huw Williams"]
It's a logistical thing i suppose - it's harder to test for aerobic potential when you only have a few minutes with the girls. Interestingly the road racers tend to get discovered after coming from other sports (Emma was a cross country runner and Sharon Laws was an adventure sport competitor) where they've already displayed good aerobic conditioning
Unlike football and lots of other more popular sports than cycling in the main young people don't just take up competitive cycling so I recognise what BCF are doing and I said from the beginning what Huw did should be applauded. :D
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Re: British Cycling talent team identification session

Postby huw williams » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:55 pm

Very much so - this test is merely one which gives us the chance to look at a large number of potential athletes and is possible to carry out quite cost effectively and quickly. Although it does only measure a certain type of athletic ability, the feeling is that its not a bad place to start. If you discover a female rider capable of putting out 700 - 800w at that age, it means she not only has the physical ability to do so but is also capable of reaching the correct state of arousal to do so in front of her class, coaches, and in a completely new environment. Remember that as cyclists who compete, when we test or train at a high level we do it repeatedly and know what's coming in terms of the mental and physical demands - so we're prepared for it.

Ashley (the girl who put out very close to 800w) had no concept of what was coming yet immediately put out the highest power figure we've seen in ages (imagine what she might be capable of from this point with good training).But equally important to us was the fact that she was able to turn it on at the flick of a switch in laboratory conditions. This suggests she's got the 'right stuff' to use a cliche. Not just the power but the desire to use it. So at that point we're interested in her as an athlete, not just a sprinter. In her case her physical build will to a large extent determine what kind of event she goes into (unless she manages to significantly change body shape that is). Contrast that with Jamie (the football team captain) who didn't display the highest power but her arousal state was hugely impressive (probably because she's already used to playing competitive sport) and her tactical awareness in the Keirin was very evident. Combined with her power to weight capabilities, we can imagine her becoming some kind of endurance cyclist.

So we can see that despite the fact that the watt bike tests only deliver a very specific set of results - the sessions looked at as a whole offer up many more pointers to potential performance capability. Make no mistake that the majority of riders we test who impress like this will NOT end up in the further stages of the talent team or get anywhere near national standard race podiums. For all sorts of reasons girls will drop out and the selection criteria as you move closer to Olympic Podium Potential status is ruthless - dozens of girls and boys are dropped at this stage each year but that's the way it is. Quite literally the survival of the fittest.

We just hope that by testing up to 10,000 girls each year (boys are easier - we talent spot them at track and road races as well as watt bike testing) we are giving ourselves a chance of finding at least one or two potential Olympic level athletes of the future each year, and as a side issue introduce the sport to a number of girls unfamiliar with it, who take things further by joining clubs and racing at local level. So however many shortcomings the tests have - that's got to be worthwhile :D
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Re: British Cycling talent team identification session

Postby carl f » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:26 pm

Fantastic work your doing there huw
Keep up the good work
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Re: British Cycling talent team identification session

Postby Will » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:52 pm

thanks for taking the time to write that up Huw - a truly inspiring read
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