7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Ivor » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:47 pm

[quote="marco"]On a probably related note I'd love to see the club in a position to take on more weekly start points for the club runs.

an excellent idea. we could use the postcodes from the membership list to get a feel for the spread of riders (although that clearly wouldn't show up how many regularly go on a run). then perhaps a poll of a few options to see what the interest is?
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby nick de meyer » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:21 pm

i don't like that junction either cars accelerate as soon as they start approaching there, i wouldn't go there on my own, i think with large numbers of cyclists we're more easily seen there, but i do agree that there's lots of other routes, i remember seeing some of ACC in edenbridge before, an optional route could be up marlpit hill, into caterham, over by woldingham, into westerham and some really nice countryside and hills aswell...but not so steep that everyone would struggle, and the option of titse hill on the way back
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Alex P » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:55 pm

[quote]marco wrote:
On a probably related note I'd love to see the club in a position to take on more weekly start points for the club runs.


There are great ideas out there along with doing alternative routes but there is one big problem....the club does not have a crack squad of 'club run' organisers to go out there and set all this all up let alone convince anybody to go out on the runs. (Marco this is not aimed at you as you know the score better than most) Speak to Amy, Andrew G, Aoden, Pete S and the others that put in real effort to try to get these things off the ground to see how difficult it is to get these organised and get riders onto them.

We need people out there to make a real effort to organise and support the rides by going on them. The club will give all the support it can, forum, email, digest, lantern rouge, announcements etc., but we need people to just do it (and people will follow).

Incidently a couple of years ago I got all the membership post codes (not names) and plotted a membership demographic. It came out like a "V" with the point just south of Coulsdon South Station spreading upwards with consistent density and fading out at the top on an arc between Beckenhan and Clapham (although the members in the US, Aus, NZ and Canada screwed it up a bit :? ). It will of course have all changed and as you say these may not be regular club runners.

Marco I think that you are wrong about the litigation climate as we would have felt it seriously if there was. If you think about how many clubs there are out there in the UK and then the amount of club runs that these support, with the numbers involved there would be a reasonable proportion of incidents that are litigious. As you say BC & CTC supports clubs and officials in these matters however I would say that there is a limit to what they all do as it is all down to money. If there was a real problem out there with lots of claims/legal fights we would be seeing stricter regulations governing what we do on club runs - risk assesments, minimum training, first aiders, disclaimers signed by all participants before we leave on a run etc etc. I think that it is approaching and it will be a sad day when it does as it will kill off cycling clubs by the hundreds. :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm going to resign as VC now just in case. :wink:
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Rob Q » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:20 am

All, great discussion points and all have valid points. Just to go back too the original subject of a cyclist being killed I posted a condolence note on Catriona Cockburn's company website and had the following response.

[quote]Dear Mr Quinn,

Thank you so much. I will pass your email on to Catriona's family. She
will very much missed. She was a lovely person and everyone feels so
sad tabout this tragedy.

Best wishes

Deborah Saw

Deborah Saw
Managing Director
Citigate Dewe Rogerson
3 London Wall Buildings
London Wall
London EC2M 5SY
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Toks » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:34 am

Yeah back to the dead cyclist. Its absolutely tragic. I know she was an experienced rider but I wonder if someone should set up a "defensive/Assertive cycling skills course" so that these fairly rare accidents can become even rarer. Condolences to her loved ones and family
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby ThePinkDreamMachine » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:40 pm

well we can get a free lesson that covers road saftey here....

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To book a free lesson just fill in the details, stating in the comments box that you want a lesson with Monty. We can then arrange it at your convenience

Cycling lessons are free if you live work or study in

LB Southwark (any age)
LB Lewisham (over 12 yrs old)
LB Croydon (over 16)
Chloe
The Pink Dream Machine Phase 2
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Mark F » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:15 pm

[quote="Sean Hogan - 何祥"][quote="Mark F"]The A23/M23 junction worries me more than any other piece of road I use at present -


Thats fair enough Mark, but was that the Club Run? We approach that junction every weekend in large groups that can be seen from far off. Sure there are some hairy moments, but is this really cause for a change?

S.


... sorry about the slow response.

I feel a lot more exposed there when I am solo than on the CR - safety in numbers and all that.

I wasn't agitating for change - just expressing my experiences. There have been a couple of hairy moments on the CR but not at this stage enough to put me off going on the CR that way - the safety in numbers for the run as a whole outweighing the concern about that junction.

However, those experiences do make me think about whether there are other routes ... I would rather rely on my own decision making for my safety than rely on motorists exercising their own judgement / discretion for my benefit. None of us wish to be the next fatality statistic but equally we all want to be out on our bikes rather than sitting at home.

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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby nick de meyer » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:59 pm

where the cycle accidents are, makes interesting reading. be careful out there folks

http://labs.timesonline.co.uk/2009/cycling_accidents/

LONDON'S most dangerous roads for cyclists are revealed today.

An online map details every cycling accident in the capital reported to police over a 12-month period. Software experts and safety campaigners say they hope it will help cyclists avoid the worst areas and reduce the number of people injured.

Users can zoom in on their route to work and switch between map and satellite views of London. Crashes are identified with red dots.
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Dombo » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:38 pm

Cheers for that. Northumberland National Park looks to be the safest place to ride. Shall try and work that into my commute.
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Andrew G » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:44 pm

That's a surprise, most accidents are in the big Cities.

Accidents do happen, not always anybody's fault. Sometimes the driver yes, but also the way you ride has an (excuse the pun) impact. Some of the riding in central London as many of us know is absolutely shocking, and the rider will have been at fault.

Misleading stats (aren't they all) if you're including all the accidents caused by a cyclist jumping a red light, pulling out without looking etc. as to how safe a road is to cycle on for someone not riding like a numpty.
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Jon H » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:50 pm

The M25 looks great for cycling
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:39 am

[quote="Jon Hemming"]The M25 looks great for cycling


Some politician did suggest that once.....

There have only been 2 accidents on my entire commute, although that is 2 too many, I feel quite safe.

I do not ride the club run enough to feel entitled to give an opinion, but I would just say....

About 20 years ago, I was heading down to the M23 junction and I saw a sickening sight of a mangled bike and an ambulance attending to a cyclist that had been hit from behind - and that was Steve Cave. He never fully recovered from that, but still rides that way now, and I think takes his son that way.

I tried a couple of runs turning left at the traffic lights by the petrol station before the M23 junction, but the climb is quite extreme, and the consensus (then) was to go back to the A23 route.

When I am on my own, I pull over by Starbucks to the central reservation and stay on the outside of the fast moving traffic, and have NEVER encountered a problem doing this.

It is a road after all, and as cyclists, we are entitled to be there.

Alex, your decision is a bit of an extreme knee jerk reaction - BC will protect any runs leaders as long as they are a paid up club member. Whilst I agree, litigation is not nice (I was sued by a rider after an accident in the ACC cyclo cross a few years ago), who is not to say you were leading the run if you were at the front? or suggested a route?

and finally....condolences to Catriona's family following her fatal collision.
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Snoop Doug » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:36 am

[quote="mrP(Boonen)VT"]Alex, your decision is a bit of an extreme knee jerk reaction - BC will protect any runs leaders as long as they are a paid up club member.



...errrmmmm, you sure you mean Alex? I thought his input to all this was considered and reasonable...? Am I missing something?
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:28 am

[quote="Snoop Doug"][quote="mrP(Boonen)VT"]Alex, your decision is a bit of an extreme knee jerk reaction - BC will protect any runs leaders as long as they are a paid up club member.



...errrmmmm, you sure you mean Alex? I thought his input to all this was considered and reasonable...? Am I missing something?


Snoop,
I was only referring to....

[quote="Alex P"]I'm going to resign as VC now just in case.


However, with his :wink: I think it may have been tongue in cheek?
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Re: 7th London female cyclist killed by lorry in london

Postby Snoop Doug » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:44 am

Indeed - my bad...I forget how easy it is to say something on here and have it writ in internet stone for ever [size=85]ever[/size] [size=50]ever[/size]

The ghost of the forum, it says....

[quote]OK I give up, someone else can take the flak for doing a job to the best of their abilities.

Ex Gen Sec signing off


:shock: We can't help ourselves :wink:
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