Legal Question

[Bo-Gilly]

Can anyone tell me what is the legal situation concerning minors on organised rides ?

Do the organisers have any liabilities for negligence in the event of an accident to a child ?

By that I mean under 18.

Thanks in advance.

[Alan M]

You can call your local youth service in Croydon and they will advise. Ask to speak to a senior youth officer and when you get to him or her ask them about your responsibilities in general and about police criminal records clearance requirements and whether they apply - it will depend on the situation which needs to be considered specifically. You can try mentioning my name as recommending this but they have probably forgotten me by now!

good luck

Alan

[Bo-Gilly]

Yeh, I wondered what would happened if a ride was posted and a 15 year old, for example, turned up went on the ride, came off their bike and broke their collar bone. Would the adults on the ride be at risk of legal action ?

If it's an informal arrangement, what's the situation ?

What decides, what's a club ride and what isn't ?

[Alan M]

you need to be very careful and it is more than a matter of liability - if minors are involved in organised activities they need to be supervised by their parents or nominated adults and you need to complete risk assessments and may need police clearance for issues of sexual misconduct.

[Bo-Gilly]

So the answer then Alan is, if a minor turns up for a ride, we tell them they can't come, right ?

We haven't always done that.

[Alan M]

Each situation is different and I can't advise but, if you offer services to young people, even if they are of a voluntary nature, you need to put in place systems to protect them - you do not have to look very far to see why.

[Alan M]

If as a individual you fail to act according to the law and as a result there is an event or action that injures someone or allows them to be injured or hurt then I suppose if it is a health and safety matter you can be imprisoned or fined. Within the child protection sphere you could find yourself implicated in a long-running investigation that would be time consuming and difficult.

But Marco, yes you may be missing the point - the various regulations seem somewhat difficult but I am afraid that there are many seemingly innocent and harmless cases where adults have been found either very careless or downright evil and as a result children have been hurt or damaged, hence the need to regulate against such possibilities, albeit at some pains and inconvenience to well meaning people such as yourself.

My main observation from various cases that I have been involved with is that when you consider, for example the death, injury or damage to a child, it could almost always have been prevented by greater care or better systems put in place by adults.

However, given what you have described it is probably not a problem but it is wise to check which is the purpose of this after all.

[Rob]

if a ride was posted and a 15 year old, for example, turned up went on the ride, came off their bike and broke their collar bone. Would the adults on the ride be at risk of legal action ?

wow...That sounds like something the americans would do!

if you fall off, tuff luck, dont do it again

[Rob C]

From what I understand the ride organiser i.e. club committee (in grand scheme of things) or designated pack leader (person leading on day i.e. Monty for 17mph group) would be held responsible for the childs actions. Unless any adults on the ride were directly involved in the imaginary incident I would say the least they could expect would be a police interview.

I'm not sure how responsible for his/her actions the child would be, the empthasis would be on the club to ensure that every possible danger had been acknowledged and an effort made to prevent it.

Is there a a risk of legal action? = probably

[Alan M]

Rob, all cases are different an yes of course a 15 year old would have a greater awareness and responsibility and I suspect the courts would view it accordingly - but lets say its a 13 year old and we don't know his or her capabilities and he or she is very fit but the bike may be faulty and experience is wanting and we do the dual carriageway and there is an accident due in part to his or her inexperience........

Any investigation would ask the question what checks were made by the organisers and organisation that may have prevented this happening - the basis for this is that we do not expect young people to be wholly responsible and we do expect adults to take a share of the responsibility for their welfare.

Probably no bad thing since young people, as you may recall, do sometimes make poor decisions.

[Elliot M]

surely BC have guidelines on this? there must also be some qualified individuals in the club already -- in fact wasn't there a youth officer appointed a couple of years ago, or did i imagine it?

[SimonH]

So from what Alan is suggesting, for example when a youth goes out with a group on an organised ride one of the other members of that group would have to responsible for him. That person would also have had to had police checks done, as well as inspecting the youths bicycle for safety prior to the ride, make sure they wear a helmet that complies to British standards. Also they would have to know if he/she had any medical conditions that could have a effect on a ride, ie. a history of blackouts.
Are these sort things really being done every organised ride ?

[Stu Merckx Man]

it didn't/doesnt happen when i ride, but im happy for anyone to give my bike a good service whenever they want

[Alan M]

As I implied you cannot generalise.

If children are involved you need, first and foremost to protect them from harm; arrangements for inexperienced 12 year olds would be different from those of competent 15 year olds - the risks for some types of children, for example those with learning or emotional difficulties could be greater. Both legally and morally one should take account of their needs and react accordiingly.

It is easy to shrug this off as burdensome rule making but there have been plenty of cases where children, even in the care of qualified and trained adults have perished - you may recall a canoeing incident some years back - and unfortunately some adults do prey on children's dependencies, and sport is one area where such adults try to 'groom' hopeful and eager young talent.

I wish it were not true but it is.

[Jon H]

For Open & Club time trials the parent or guardian has to sign a parental consent form for under 18s to be able to ride, which is basically a disclaimer stating they understand the risks involved in riding on the open roads.

Do we have something similar on the application form for club membership?