Team ACC

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Postby Matthew Ives » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:15 am

[quote]Toks - I consider myself as a Mr Average

Yeah...Just Mr Average. Gets 4th place in a tough Surrey League race while suffering from a cold and sore throat :shock:
I think you might just have a teeny weeny bit of talent too, Paul. :wink:
Great result by the way. Well done.
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Postby kieran » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:36 am

Me on Paul H (posted November 2006 in a thread on "Turbo Training Heart Rate v Outdoor Heart Rate")

[quote]oh no Paul is getting focused , don't know if you know guys but on the drive to Dunsfold Paul was telling me about his previous main sport rowing which he doesn't do now due to injuries sustained while trying out for the british national rowing team!!! Would indicate to me someone who has great potential, so if Paul diverts his energies to cycling who knows where he'll go! Best of luck Paul, I hope the injuries don't put limits on the level you can reach. Powertap not cheap but seems good value compared to other power measurement devices out there still you'll be wanting a return on your money then


In Paul reply he said he considered himself a Mr Average then as well :lol:
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Postby Kevin Rynne » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:28 am

Inspiring stuff, hope to race next week if my cold clears. Sylv's idea sounds promising what does everyone think?
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Postby Toks » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:35 am

[quote]and besides, racing for an hour is going to be EASY compared to the 2hr plus slogs on the rutted roads of surrey, i hope!
mmm can I quote you on that in April Adam?:lol: Average heart rate intensity in a 2 1/2 hour road race 83-85%. Average HRT in a 50min crit at Palace 88-92% . Go figure :D [quote]Toks - I consider myself as a Mr Average as well who has an understanding wife and enjoys training. I've also been doing endurance training for the last fourteen years and know how to get the best out of myself and just converted it to bike speed over the winter.

I've started the season with good form which has made it easier to accumilate points otherwise I would have found it just as hard as anybody else.

Also having strong teammates has been a big help.

After reading your blog, I think you need to use some of your great motivational skills on yourself and I look forward to racing with you in the near future.
Thanks Paul. Its no problem really I went off the boil slightly for ten days but I'm focussed again. Its amazing what you can do with team mates. In the vast majority of races last year it was usually just myself with 1 or 2 ACC's. Interestingly on a couple of CP crits despite feeling a bit knackered having both Sylv and Matt in the race pushed me to work harder and place well up the field so racing with a team definitley helps

I really am pretty average as a racer and thats why I keep telling anyone that will listen to give it a go. Despite the pain its still a real buzz. My mistake this year was not going on any fast group rides so don't expect me to do anything useful till at least May. Cheers
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Postby Matthew Ives » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:46 am

[quote]My mistake this year was not going on any fast group rides so don't expect me to do anything useful till at least May.

I'd just like to second that, Toks.
I think every rider is different, but for me, missing out on fast group rides looks like it has been a big mistake. I was labouring under the illusion that doing a few turbo session a week would be fine but I think I might be one of those riders that needs big miles . :cry:
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Postby Toks » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:49 pm

[quote]Actually, I was wondering about something last race - what if say some of those ACCers go for an early break, we hear they're say a minute or more ahead, then in the second half a group (hypothetically Paul T, Adam, Kevin, Matthew, Kieran and myself ) feel like digging in and going for a second break - is that ok?
Thats six of you, no matter how you choose to see it, trying to chase down a breakaway with ACC'ers already in it. Why would you want to do that?

Your guys (George and Paul) are up the road expending energy to stay away. You guys (K, A, M etc) are also expending energy to stay away acting as a huge magnet to the bunch. Then fifty blokes come and catch all of you. If the key breakaway goes at that point most of you will be 'cooked' so who will be able to go with it?

If you're all racing as individuals your idea is fine Sylv. But if you're racing for the greater good (ACC win or high placings) thats a devisive tactic. If you haven't made the main break get yourself to the front and 'sit on' the chasers. Once the breakaway has been pulled in get ready to make your move or work with the next one. :D .
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Postby Paul H » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:18 pm

I still maintain that I am a Mr Average. If you dont do the fast rides and miss your turbo sessions, you cant blame that on genetics (you could blame the not liking the cold gene I suppose).

George and Myself trained the hardest and did more training rides than everybody else so it comes as no surprise to me that we are performing well.

Most Mr A's are capable of winning 2nd and 3rd Cat races if they are prepared to do the training.

If anybody has a "special" talent, it has to be John (man in green).
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Postby Sylv » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:25 pm

Gotcha Toks :D
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Postby Marek » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:38 pm

Well, Toks I think that it depends where you are in the race. Jason was away this weekend and he had about 3 minutes. At the point later in the race I thought sod it, he is going to stay away now so just before the last lap I think it was I attacked with Paul, George and Max. Unfortunately we could not stay away, but I think it is better to have a go than leave it to the sprint and if your man is well up the road then why not have a go. More points for you and the team if you can get more people up the road.

Cheers

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Postby -Adam- » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:24 pm

quote me happy toks!!!

All i can remember when i stopped in the 2/3 race a couple of weeks ago, was 'fcuking hell, palace would have been well over and done with by now!'

I think the best thing to do when you have team mates in the break, is to go with anyone who tries to bridge the gap, but to purposely work within yourself, or not work at all. Thats what i did the other week (much to the dismay of some of the other riders, but hey, thats bike racing huh!?)

Then like marek says, if the gap is big, try to attack with a lap or so to go. But if riders come with you, make them do more of the work!
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Postby Toks » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:43 am

[quote]Well, Toks I think that it depends where you are in the race. Jason was away this weekend and he had about 3 minutes. At the point later in the race I thought sod it, he is going to stay away now so just before the last lap I think it was I attacked with Paul, George and Max. Unfortunately we could not stay away, but I think it is better to have a go than leave it to the sprint and if your man is well up the road then why not have a go. More points for you and the team if you can get more people up the road.
Yep Marek in those circumstances with a lap to go I agree with that tactic. Especially if none of you are confident of placing when it comes down to the final gallop. The thing to remember is if there's a a big group of you racing (e.g. six to eight) if you've been paying attention and your on the money tactically speaking you should definitley get one or two team members in the top ten.

The last lap flyer is a great tactic but as you know all too well its incredibly hard to make it stick cause nobody wants a break to go in the last twenty minutes. Although I have seen some energising bunny types who just keep attacking and make it happen. Gawd I hate those guys!...

Adam be glad you haven't got to deal with teenage tearaway, sixteen year old, Erick Rowsell in the 3/4's at Palace this year. He regularly gave me a beating and robbed me of a second win when he slipped away with eight laps to go once and none of us knew. I did a less than embarrassing Erik Zabel impression at the finish line only to see young Erick chilling on the grass nonchalantly eating a bananna Grrrrrrr!!!!!!
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Postby Andrew G » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:26 pm

[quote="AdamJCotterell"]I think the best thing to do when you have team mates in the break, is to go with anyone who tries to bridge the gap, but to purposely work within yourself, or not work at all. Thats what i did the other week (much to the dismay of some of the other riders, but hey, thats bike racing huh!?)

Then like marek says, if the gap is big, try to attack with a lap or so to go. But if riders come with you, make them do more of the work!

Good on you Adam, playing the policeman is a perfectly acceptable tactic and should be understood by the others in your group so although they may have been a bit miffed they should have understood.

From the photos you seem to have been riding near Paul T for a while, if you're not in a break that will certainly help you pick up tips on race reading etc.
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Postby -Adam- » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:15 pm

That was the idea Andrew, i am but a student after all! I was watching what he was doing, and tried to immitate. I know im supposed to be studying building surveying etc, but this bike racing malarky is so much more interesting, its a crying shame it'll never pay me as much!

To me, at the moment, points are not the be all and end all. Im not mr average like paul and george. so im just trying to learn what i can until i really come in to form, so i dont make silly tactical errors and waste good legs...

Toks, why will i not have to face this teenage tearaway you speak of...!? Id he the guy that won the series last summer?
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Postby Stu Merckx Man » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:24 am

adam he won the 2,3,4 at hillingdon from a break away... (the one where i was dropped :oops: )

but hes a second cat now.
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Postby Toks » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:22 am

[quote]I still maintain that I am a Mr Average. If you dont do the fast rides and miss your turbo sessions, you cant blame that on genetics (you could blame the not liking the cold gene I suppose).

George and Myself trained the hardest and did more training rides than everybody else so it comes as no surprise to me that we are performing well.
There's no denying Paul that training hard is very important if you wanna do well in races. But you've got to admit some people bring a lot more to the physiological party than others. For example I'm sure if some club members followed the intensity of yours and Georges training they'd probably overtrainin or even get a repetivie strain injury.

I remember reading about Roberto Haras being give the same training program as Lance Armstrong back in the US Postal days and arriving at the tour burnt out. Yes hard work pays off but if you've been blessed with sporty genes thats half the battle won :D
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