Censorship and free speech...

[the muur]

If my memory serves me correctly, we spok to each other along something very similar to what you are saying Jayne.

[AodanH]

I wasn't at the club run you talk about Ludwig and I've only been with the club a year but I can remeber one person has been banned for losing his temper with other cyclists/being over-aggressive/dangerous while training at race speed on the dual caraigeway. Apparently there had been a number of other lesser instances before this. Don't know the guy but maybe it was him. I can imagine it must have been a bit of a spectacle for a newcomer.

[JayneToyne]

Ludwig, the big show down at Coulsdon was Monty venting himself ( and embarassing half the people on the club run so i was told) at a guy called Steve Cave ,from what ive heard hes a nice enough fella and a pretty good rider and handy racer. the problem in the past on a few occasions has been that steve has lost his temper out on the ride and this caused a bit of a stir to say the least among some of our faster riders who he was riding with at the time. I want to stay out of the arguement of whether he should or shouldnt be allowed to ride with the club. its all abit political and personally never met him so until ive met someone I cant judge them from heresay.

Getting back to the original point I raised yesterday, about the sh*tty treatment thats been given to Hannah (on this occasion), demanding she become a social member before she can come on rides or on a training holiday organised by people from ACC. She has put a huge amount into helping others with cycling, along with coaching and racing. I think she deserves some respect and at least an apology from Monty for not just the last post he made about her not being welcome on the Majorca trip unless shes a member, then her post getting deleted from the forum to be replaced with MEMBERS ONLY, but also the steady stream of hints that she isnt welcome on club runs and rides without addiscombe membership.

I think the Forum, the club run and any club event should be open to all cyclists, whether Addiscombe or from other clubs. If they arent a member of any club then maybe we should pursuade them to join one so they have the benefit of having an organisation help them along their quest to either make friends, find new trails, get insurance, be part of a racing team, get decent coaching etc etc.
Anyone who is already a member of a club, doesnt matter which club should be welcomed as a friend. none of this b*ll**ks about having to be a social member. ( thats for people who dont ride surely)

A perfect example of a friendly club was at Xmas I joined in a track session at manchester, exclusively booked for Mildenhall, but I just called them , asked if i could join in, they replied of course you can.. and that was that.

If we had a track session booked at say Calshot exclusively for Addiscombe surely we wouldnt turn away anyone from another club who asked if they could join in? The same goes for a trip to Majorca.

Lets get that sh*te for words (private forum) under the addiscombe.org name at the top of the forum removed. Maybe replace it with Public forum.

(ps the agreeable name came from some youngster pointing to the old club jersey which had the letters TAL on them and asked what TAL stood for. On the spot someone made up 'the agreeable lot'" and since it sounds nicer than being called the "scum" (addis 'scum') its been used ever since. It was never intended as anything but a tongue in cheek nickname. its only since it got put on the jerseys that its been banded around abit.

[JayneToyne]

oops musta pressed the submit button twice

[Alex P]

This subject has raised some strong issues and created healthy discussion which can be used to take the club forward but has it turned free speech into something else akin to mob rule?

The subject has now become very personal where there is an aggrevance and the forum has been used to publically judge someone with or without the facts.

If someone has a problem with someone else there must be a better way to sort it out than on a public forum.

I'm left with an uncomfortable feeling about this. What happens when the next person makes a mistake.....

[JayneToyne]

well, thats a good point about becoming a mob alex.
thats not what I intended at all. The committee meeting is a good place to take this subject further rather than it becoming a public flogging.

ive just had enough of hearing of the numbers game being played with the club. the exclusivity put on the majorca trip, this forum etc in the past couple of days was the final straw and i just couldnt just sit in the background and say nothing.

So lets add something to the agenda for the next meeting and talk about it around a table.
possible points to raise: allowing riders from other clubs to ride with us on any acc organised event without pressure to pay money to the club for social acceptance.
a change of emphasis from numbers of people joining/ riding on the club run to reports of people who have achieved things within the club. whether that be doing their first full club run or competing in first race.. winning races, trips abroad etc etc.
more emphasis on progressing new people through the club and encourage racing/competing.

any more points from anyone else?

[Jason]

My two pennies worth....

We need to remember that this is a cycling club and not a business, that's my opinion. The obsession with getting more and more members seems to be religious, and more care should be taken to look after the ones we've got. Who cares if we're the second largest club in the UK? We should be striving to be the best, most approachable and most enjoyable to be a part of. Discouraging others from riding with us is not a way of doing that, and word will get out.

I love riding my bike, getting out and meeting up with people who have become great friends; hence why I went to Aston Hill on Sunday even though I couldn't ride. A lot of the people I ride with nowadays aren't club members and never will be, but they are my mates and I enjoy their company. If the club (for any reason) tried to discourage me from riding with these folks (remember that I organise a fair few of the rides that they attend), then I for one would resign, simple as that. On the other hand, I do tell people that I'm part of ACC, try and encourage them (where relevant - e.g. local to Croydon) to see what we're all about and if they were interested in joining a club, I'm sure it would be ACC.

At the end of the day, we're a bunch of grown-ups dicking about on push bikes like overgrown kids; we don't do it to be serious, we do it as an escape from all that.

[ninder]

Gosh! I've just got back from holiday and was just wondering how to fit in club runs with wedding admin when I log on and see that club runs may be a thing of the past as ACC implodes.
I'm a completely new member, have been out on the CR a handful of times and certainly not in the racing/serious riding league. However, as a newbie I'd like to say that the numbers game has actually encouraged me to get out on my bike - for those of us who still think 9am on a Saturday morning is early, if there's 40 of you it makes it a friendlier easier ride.
With so many members there's bound to be diasgreements but is vitriole really necessary?
I've had almost nothing but support from the ACC. Sniping about whether we shoud be "Agreeable" or not surely misses the point. With so many members, the club can be many things to all members. For me it's about getting fit and enjoying the click of cleats on my feet, and sun on my face (rather than the duvet over my head), for others it's about more committed riding and racing. But that's the beauty of such a large club - everyone can co-exist and find like-minded people. It's a club - there should be members - £7 hardly breaks the bank but the club needs finances to run. And if you don't pay but then take full advantages of membership then surely it makes a mockery of the idea of club membership in the first place.
Maybe the club needs to stratify more discretely to ensure everyone feels loved, nurtured and their needs catered to? I certainly wouldn't be offended if, for example, the 21mph group met earlier/later/ somewhere else. Then perhaps there could be a "just for fun" type ride in EVERY group, once a month for people thinking about trading up to a faster ride?
Finally, someone else has said it, and it's true - we are all grown-ups who've found that riding bikes makes life more enjoyable. That's what I'm in it for.

[Marek]

Cycling is ace, politics suck, lets ride and leave it at that!

[David Findlay]

ACC is the fifth club I have been a member of over the last 15years and have to say one of the best. Having been off the bike a couple of years, the first club run was tough going but Monty satyed with me to ensure I did not get lost and provide some encouragement. Apart from that the whole group was friendly, all with an interst in having a good time...so I joined.

In the last year, Monty has shown strong leadership in terms of discipline on the road and reminding all of the club rules. Banning Steve Cave (for good reason) I'm sure was not an easy decision but leaders are not meant to be popular, only respected for having the guts to do something others would not.

Who cares about the banter about club numbers. Its part of the fun and enjoyment of being a member. Yuu really don't have to take life so seriously!. The beauty of a club of our size is the diversity of the riders. From a hard training ride to a gentle stroll, you've got the choice.

For a club that has come from nothing to where it is today give credit where credit is due. The committee spearheaded by Monty has done an excellent job. Its always easy to criticise. Could you do any better?. If so, stick your head above the parpet and give it a try.

[LUDWIG]

[quote].......Its always easy to criticise. Could you do any better?. If so, stick your head above the parpet and give it a try.

[Tashkent Terror]

You've gotta admire the guy

Thanks for making this thread not only an interesting one, but also a tad amusing.

Not taking the piss but i'd like to ride next to you on the club run some day. Would be a darn sight more interesting than getting stuck talking about the weather to someone I don't really like!

[Dom]

I was relatively new to road cycling this past summer and the only thing that was really advertised to me was the CR. Training, racing etc was kind of implied to be for pros/experts only, maybe my mistaken understanding of the situation but thats the way I felt.

Maybe its time to change focus given I dont see how it could be safe to have many more turn up at a CR on a Sat (if we all (200+?) turned up now to Coulsdon the cafe couldnt cope for a start) and focus on what the club provides to its members rather than having as many members as possible.

[Jason]

Ludwig, you are the man You've got to get yourself out on the MTB rides, you'll fit in very well.

[Alex P]

The problem will be is that he won't be out on the club run as he will still be too sick after somebody has said something positive about the club