so i went up to elmers end to do the chaingang, and i was the only one there! i couldnt believe it!
thankfully george was also going tonight, so when he turned up, and still no one else was there we set off anyway.
it was absolutely FREEEEEZING, there was ice everywhere but we stayed safe.
george was super strong today and did most of the work on the front, im still not feeling 100% after my bad cold, and after a while my legs didnt want to know anymore and i just couldnt get them moving so i left george on the front. hopfully its loosened me up for saturday though.
ended up with a nice 45 miles in the end.
stu
elmers end wimps
28 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
elmers end wimps
by Stu Merckx Man » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:30 pm
- Stu Merckx Man
- lives on this board 24/7!!!
- Posts: 1850
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:02 pm
- Location: coulsdon
by Stu Merckx Man » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:10 pm
oh right...woops 
it used to be on tuesdays and thursdays, when did they chang it carl?
it used to be on tuesdays and thursdays, when did they chang it carl?
- Stu Merckx Man
- lives on this board 24/7!!!
- Posts: 1850
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:02 pm
- Location: coulsdon
by George » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:23 am
That was a super ride tonight, we sure kept warm up those long drags.
I'm not quite back to normal cycling yet, the trouble is I can't flex my neck round to look behind me so unfortunatly I didn't get to see Stu tonight even though we were riding together 
We'll have to maybe try wednesday next time, I wonder if they could handle the Addiscombe pace though.
I'm not quite back to normal cycling yet, the trouble is I can't flex my neck round to look behind me so unfortunatly I didn't get to see Stu tonight even though we were riding together
We'll have to maybe try wednesday next time, I wonder if they could handle the Addiscombe pace though.
-
George - lives on this board 24/7!!!
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:20 am
- Location: at a Conference in london
by Tony » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:14 am
I'm curious to know what training benefit people were looking for by wanting to do a chain gang in December and on a freezing cold evening?
Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
By all means ride the bike lots - but keep the intensity down, wrap up nice and warm and try to go for distance instead. Odd bit of speed training is not a problem - but it seems tha balance is rather too speed and intensity orientated at the moment IMHO.
Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
By all means ride the bike lots - but keep the intensity down, wrap up nice and warm and try to go for distance instead. Odd bit of speed training is not a problem - but it seems tha balance is rather too speed and intensity orientated at the moment IMHO.
Last edited by Tony on Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Tony - lives on this board 24/7!!!
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:58 pm
by Colin Steadman » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:32 am
[quote="Tony"]I'm curious to know what training benefit people were looking for by wanting to do a chain gang in December and on a freezing cold evening?
Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
By all means ride the bike lots - but keep the intensity down, wrap up nice and warm and try to go for distance instead. Odd bit of speed itraining s not a problem - but it seems tha balance is rather too speed and intensity orientated at the moment IMHO.
Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
By all means ride the bike lots - but keep the intensity down, wrap up nice and warm and try to go for distance instead. Odd bit of speed itraining s not a problem - but it seems tha balance is rather too speed and intensity orientated at the moment IMHO.
I couldn't agree more, Tony.
However, George and Stu and Paul H are, in the nicest possible sense, animals on the bike (particularly George hehehehe).
They couldn't go slow even if they tried.
- Colin Steadman
- ...
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:53 am
by Robh » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:10 am
[quote="Colin Steadman"][quote="Tony"]I'm curious to know what training benefit people were looking for by wanting to do a chain gang in December and on a freezing cold evening?
Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
By all means ride the bike lots - but keep the intensity down, wrap up nice and warm and try to go for distance instead. Odd bit of speed itraining s not a problem - but it seems tha balance is rather too speed and intensity orientated at the moment IMHO.
Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
By all means ride the bike lots - but keep the intensity down, wrap up nice and warm and try to go for distance instead. Odd bit of speed itraining s not a problem - but it seems tha balance is rather too speed and intensity orientated at the moment IMHO.
I couldn't agree more, Tony.
However, George and Stu and Paul H are, in the nicest possible sense, animals on the bike (particularly George hehehehe).
They couldn't go slow even if they tried.
Well I don't agree...Who's right or wrong? Neither of us are qualified to specualte what's the right way to train.
Toks brought this up last year saying George, Paul & Stu shouldn't doing be intensity over the winter but I don't recall these guys mentioning being burnt out during the Summer.
If this works for them why change?
I came across this from an American coach and here's his view point of winter training :-
But be aware that real "base" is not about doing 20- 30 hours a week with a significant amount of JRA(just riding around... at endurance power level). If you do more then 15 hours a week, and have a job, you will not be able to train threshold properly. You probably know this but have gotten sucked into building "false base" as it has been hammered into the psyche of cyclists for many many years. High mileage weeks will hinder threshold gains and ultimately reduce your fitness and ability to get stronger. It will also not build mitochondria(O2 power houses) once you are in half decent shape ...and you are in good shape!
I train GOOD Cat 1 riders that only do 10-14 hours a week..EVER...but they work hard at threshold all year long and ramp it up with VO2 work in March.
Once a week in the winter hit a tough group ride and work threshold and some VO2 max in a non structured way.
Then a few weeks before your first important races do structured 4-6 minute VO2 max intervals (20-30 minutes a day) once or maybe twice a week if not doing a hard group ride.
If you have a job or go to school then reduce winter time on the bike to 10-14 hour per week(seriously) and do three days a week of threshold work. Sound nuts...nope...not if you are training correctly. Reduce JRA(endurance power level training) to one day a week for 2-3 hours max. Take one day off the bike each week and one recovery day(at least). Take a recovery week once every 4-6 weeks....really really easy week of 5-7 days that includes two days off the bike, two recovery rides and one day with a little intensity but reduced such as 10 minutes at threshold and some tempo.
Before rest weeks.. peak the block out with more time at threshold and NOT simply more time....keep the hours down and train HARD.
Sprint one day a week year round.
Three 20 minute intervals at 95% of your functional threshold power per workout is a super workout and does WAY MORE than JRA for 3-6 hours! As the season nears do some of your threshold work at 100-105% of your threshold power.
"The only reason why some pro's do 6-7 hour days is in prep for three week stage races with 6-7 hour days. They do them in the mountains because out of 7 hours you get 4 hours of real quality"
Greg Lemond
He isn't talking about 6-7 hours at JRA ...and who in the hell, that has a real life, has the energy and recovery powers for 6-7 hour rides with three hours at high endurance power, two-three hours at tempo power and an hour at threshold power!
I would advise that you build the volume at tempo and threshold intensity in your blocks over a 3-6 week period before taking a VERY easy recovery week. Then when you come back you drop back in volume a bit and also in intensity and then build up again.
Be very careful not to add too much easy endurance riding in an effort to get big volume numbers. As I mentioned before endurance riding does not cause the best in cardiovascular adaptations once you are in fairly good shape.
There is a balance you have to find between volume and intensity and volume of intensity. Your focus MUST be on high tempo and threshold riding all winter long with determination to see slow and gradual increases in sustainable threshold power. THIS IS BASE.
To peak your threshold power in late winter/early spring you should do more threshold work at 100-105% of your threshold power.
A few weeks before your early races a VO2 block will help to increase your VO2 max more than the threshold work has already done and it will raise the threshold ceiling as well...a higher VO2 max means that you can get a higher threshold with proper training of course.
Now that doesn't mean you can't do endurance rides...it just means that the focus is NOT on racking up huge mileage at endurance intensity. Racking up high endurance miles WILL NOT allow for greater gains in threshold power or VO2 max latter on..that's a myth that exercise science has debunked.
It also doesn't mean that you cannot do VO2 max and anaerobic work capacity work in the off season either. In fact I encourage riders to get in some VO2 max and AWC work in a tough group ride each week in the off season. But don't do structured VO2 work until early Spring. Most riders do not need to do ANY structured AWC intervals unless awc is a real weakness. AWC power is the least important element in a roadie's bag of tricks...and it is very hard to recover from properly done awc work.
Of course you should sprint one day a week year round. Sprinting is not hard to recover from by the way.
I have some guys doing over 5 hours a week of threshold work by late winter. Three in structured work and more in group rides!
Between threshold intervals just ride at an endurance intensity or even less for 5-10 minutes.
If you are going to be riding 4 hour one-day races and short stage races do you "need" to ride a weekly 5-6 hour ride. Physiologically NO...mentally....perhaps. I would set the limit at 5 hour and that done once every two weeks.
You should block train though...that is do three days of training in a row followed by a couple days recovery. You can even do a forth day but make that day an endurance ride.
The main benefit of long endurance rides is that they do teach the body to burn fat for fuel more effective/efficiently. They also help you loose weight. Trouble is they do not make high enough demands upon the cardiovascular system and muscular system to cause the needed adaptations to race well. Endurance riding taken too far, and many guys do too much, will reduce testosterone levels and this hampers recovery. Too much endurance riding will also fatigue you to the point that you cannot train threshold properly.
Great endurance comes from a great VO2 max...it is a percentage of VO2 max. If you have a high VO2 max(on the bike) you are going to have great endurance on the bike. Who do you think will have better endurance... a 160 pound man with an 80 VO2 max that trains 10 hours a week , or a 160 pound man with a 70 VO2 max that trains 25 hours a week? The man with the higher VO2 max of course.
Even more important is sustainable power at threshold.
If one guy at 160 pounds has a threshold power of 350 watts and trains 25 hour a week with a 5 hour "long" ride, and another 160 pound guy has a threshold power of 400 watts and trains 10 hours a week with a 3 hour long ride, then who do you think will win a 5 hour road race between the two(all other things being equal). The 400 watt man of course.
How often would I include Tempo workouts? Well, once a week specifically is fine but remember you get tempo work even when going up a hill easy and in group rides.
I would make the focus of a tempo ride a high tempo/low threshold ride or as Coggan likes to say Sweat spot ride, or about 88-94% of ones true threshold power.
- Robh
- lives on this board 24/7!!!
- Posts: 1209
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 2:34 pm
- Location: West Sussex, Crawley
[quote]Don't forget the motto (I kindof made it up - but its none the worse for that) that "less is more" at this time of the year. There's a fair chance of a rather big loss of interest / form around June or July (if not earlier) from what I have seen of training rides recently.
. All opinions are valued and for what its worth I think we're in the same corner. Just not standing on the same spot