elmers end wimps

[Colin Steadman]

[quote]

If my observations on what people are doing and suggestions to get some more moderation in to people's training are not considered correct - then I'll happily leave people to try and work things out for themselves. I've got plenty of other things to do with my time!

[Tony]

I'm not sure where this thread is going. And I'm not trying to be a drama queen.... although may be coming across as one!

It's also quite flattering to hear that one or two people think I have or had some talent. I actually believe more in 'nurture' rather than 'nature'. Sure you basically need a reasonable physiology (with no significant medical conditions) and awareness of whether you are more a roleur / grimpeur etc. The rest comes from hard work and training.

Paul, Stu and George easily have the capability to make the step up to be competitive or even strong riders in E12 events next year (and I suspect there are plenty others in the club not far behind). Unless crits are going to be their focus, some 'tuning' of their training approach would be beneficial based on my personal experiences and observations of the other top, local riders. Some textbooks may agree some may suggest otherwise - I'm just going by what I see and what I would be doing if I was planning to race regularly (and assuming these guys want to ride the longer, tougher E12 events next year). Irrespective of this, people still need to get out on the bike and have fun and remain motivated - which adds another dimension too.

[huw williams]

When preparing the winter training guide we spoke to a number of coaches who all have elite riders on their books

Not one of them advocated any riding above moderate amounts of threshold work before xmas and most were horrified by some of the feedback from the ACC training forum posted just after the end of the season

General opinion amongst them was that this is not unusual in 2nd and 3rd cat racers "who ain't strictly speaking the sharpest tools in the box and don't know any better" (was how one put it) especially those who have moved up the ranks relatively quickly and enjoyed some success.

It was also the reason they cited for comparatively few riders reaching their full potential and go on to become 1st cat and elite riders.

So that's the view from the top but you pays your money, you makes your choice I guess.

[Stu Merckx Man]

although i would love to be doing lots of longer rides, i dont have enough time, i cant commute etc etc.

so isnt it better to get out for a blast on a thursday evening (or whatever evening) with other people, for a couple of hours than do nothing? i would enjoy that more than going out for 3 hours in the dark and cold and probably on my own.

[Toks]

[quote="Stu Merckx Man"]although i would love to be doing lots of longer rides, i dont have enough time, i cant commute etc etc.

so isnt it better to get out for a blast on a thursday evening (or whatever evening) with other people, for a couple of hours than do nothing? i would enjoy that more than going out for 3 hours in the dark and cold and probably on my own.

[huw williams]

[quote="Stu Merckx Man"]although i would love to be doing lots of longer rides, i dont have enough time, i cant commute etc etc.

so isnt it better to get out for a blast on a thursday evening (or whatever evening) with other people, for a couple of hours than do nothing? i would enjoy that more than going out for 3 hours in the dark and cold and probably on my own.

[mrP(Boonen)VT]

Isn't it great to have yoof on your side

Different people have different requirements, both mentally and physically.

When I was a junior, I rode the road season, then went on training like a nutter for cyclo cross, then back on the road again without a break and it was OK for a few years, but gradually had to take time to take it easy.

Bryan taylor advocates the flat out all year round method and although mainly a track rider, does have a deal of endurance.

When I broke my leg (Dec 2001) I had an enforced layoff for 12 weeks and when I got back on the bike could only manage 5mph, yet by August I rode to a PB in a 12 hour.

It really is as Huw says "you pay your money and take your choice" but for the MAJORITY, a good steady endurance base works to keep form steady throughout the season.

[quote]General opinion amongst them was that this is not unusual in 2nd and 3rd cat racers "who ain't strictly speaking the sharpest tools in the box and don't know any better" (was how one put it) especially those who have moved up the ranks relatively quickly and enjoyed some success.

So that's the view from the top but you pays your money, you makes your choice I guess.

[Tony]

So we are all agreed......there's no right or wrong way to train!

Let's not forget the basics (and I don't intend to patronise anyone):

1. You have to enjoy your training and it has to fit in with the rest of your life;
2. Training should be geared to the sorts of racing you ultimately plan to focus on - traing for optimal Palace form will be a bit different to being ready for the National 12hr;
3. Don't overdo things in winter. If you want to do short and sharp - then do so.....but keep the duration down and don't go completely mad. If you want to longer-rides then wrap up like the Michelin man, go steady and focus on stuff like smooth pedal action, spinning or even some big gear work as appropriate;
4. Good recovery is always important;

And to answer a little better one previous post - the stronger local riders whom I know of e.g. Steve Bayliss, Ibbo, Dave Kennett, Steve Calland, Nigel Carpenter (he was a star years ago), Marcus B, plus some past masters such as Justin Clarke, etc. generally keep a lid on their pace, especially in early winter and pick up the mileage progressively in the New Year and later the intensity. As has been said before it's about getting the right balance.

[Robh]

Mitochondria: The Aerobic Engines

5/18/06

Words by Kirk Willett

In particular, long, exclusively easy rides do not appear to effectively promote mitochondrial development and/or bolster the size of one’s aerobic engine. The process of building a bigger aerobic engine appears to be skewed towards an accumulation of high intensity training over time. Eventually though, it is largely the ability to deliver oxygen to our mitochondria which limits the rate at which our mitochondria can generate ATP from the variety of organic molecules that can be oxidized. Without adequate oxygen, the chemical reactions involved in aerobic respiration are impaired. The primary reason our aerobic engines can only be so big is because our cardiac output and our blood’s oxygen carrying capacity can only be so good!

Once one gets beyond engine size, there are other factors which can influence performance. One cannot expect to have reached their performance potential in extremely long endurance events on a diet of exclusively one hour rides with high intensity intervals. The targeting of an event’s expected, more specific demands, such as a combination of the total work and the distribution of that work, is likely to be of benefit. In at least the weeks leading up to target events, an additional 1-2 rides per week can augment the 20MP+ training discussed above. It may be that these days are combined with the 20MP+ work. For example, if one is targeting an event expected to require 4000kj’s, it would be wise to include some training in preparation for the event which approximates those demands, even if such training is not likely to be helpful in building a larger aerobic engine.

The next time you are out there training, think about your mitochondria sucking up that oxygen and powering your body. They are your friends…diligently providing the matrix a portion of the enzymes responsible for the chemical reactions which power your muscles. It would also be a good idea to think about how to efficiently get more of them when trying to build your aerobic engine as big as it can be. Generally, you have to go hard to make them grow! The bigger the engine, the faster one can go! Train hard, rest hard, train hard again, and have fun along the way!

Source :- http://www.biketechreview.com/performan ... ondria.htm

[Robh]

Base Training for Cycling: A New Definition

4/3/05

Words and Images by: Kirk Willett

The biggest decision in training choice and prescription addresses the cost-benefit relationship between time and intensity. Hypothetically, if you trained at lower intensities for large amounts of time (per day/week for many weeks) and increased the training power a few watts every week, you might eventually reach your genetic limits for O2 delivery and mitochondrial density and therefore maximize your 20MP. The costs incurred with this approach are time and the large volume of overall fatigue caused by exposure to the weather and the mental and physical stress of all those endless hours on the bike. This fatigue can result in immune-system depression, psychological depression, depression of “good” hormone levels, and over-use injuries caused by such huge volumes of repetitive motion to name a few. These potential liabilities suggest that this approach may not be worth it, especially when you can accomplish the same adaptations in a small fraction of the time.

Why waste your time and incur these significant costs? Even professional riders do not have time to waste. Time is better spent riding harder, recovering sooner, and avoiding unnecessary fatigue when building your base. There is a proper application for those longer, easier rides which shift adaptations towards glycogen storage in lower powered muscle fiber profiles, but they are not the base of cycling performance. 20MP is this base.

Source :- http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/base.htm

[huw williams]

[quote="Paul H"] Are these are the same coaches that write the garbage in cycling weekly? Doesnt a "top" coach have something more interesting to write about than the nutrional content of xmas dinner?

[Robh]

Lemond quotes on training.

Referring to Cramichael's training approach for top riders Lemond says this....

"He (Chris Carmichael) would say, "I am doing a lot of quantity and quality". But you can't do both without drugs. You can't be doing 30 hours a week and still ride hard." I can tell you that I rarely did 30 hours a week, and this is what they are doing regularly." Mountain Bike Action




Here are a few quotes I recorded from a seminar I attended. Dug up my tape.

"You should train for 2-3 days of quality training in a row and then take 1-2 days off for rest and recovery, and some may need more time off"

"I almost always took one day off the bike, usually Monday, and one day at a very easy spin per week, usually Fridays, as a pro, so most of you with a real job and other life stressors should take at least this much. Many of you will need more recovery time each week."

"If a guy is taking only one day off a week he is not training properly, and he will eventually over train unless he takes drugs. You need at least one day off the bike and one day of very easy spinning per week year round".

"There are so many myths and traditions in cycling and so many riders, and even coaches, are misinformed. Great cycling fitness and performance is a byproduct of an incredible VO2 max, big stroke volume, and well honed lactate threshold. To increase these you need quality training."..... Now he raised his voice a bit and said......"This cannot be done with low level endurance riding! You need to do a lot of lactate threshold training, some tempo, and then latter on, and a few weeks before your early races, start doing VO2 max intervals as well."

"Most riders don't have a clue when it comes to structure in their training. I would sooner have a guy say that he trains only three days a week because he trains so hard that he needs the other days to recover rather then I ride six days a week."


Then after the seminar he hung around for like an hour while guys bombarded him with questions.

Source cyclingforums