12h TT August questions:

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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby huw williams » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:20 pm

Makes perfect sense - even in a 1 hour session on the power tap I can plot a significant 'drift' in HR - the higher the intensity and longer the ride, the greater the drift

It also explains this from PVT - "the first 4 hours seemed so slow that I felt like I'd just been down to the shops, but the last 4 hours at the same pace were incredibly tough."

Slightly simplistically, this is why power training is so much more effective - if you stick to a target HR your power drifts off so you're not training as effectively towards the end of a session - if you stick to a target power value - you'r heart rate will begin to increase over time and the perceived effort will creep up, making the ride progressively harder. After a 5 hour 'endurance' ride a couple of weeks ago I was chewing the bar tape struggling so hard to hold a measly 200w which earlier in the ride I was struggling to stay below :D

I'd love to see an average power trace for a 12hour TT from one of the really good exponents like Rich V
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby richv » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:29 pm

I suspect 12-hour power profiles are rare as hens teeth at the moment. :wink:
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby richv » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:35 pm

But if you want some interesting power data try this [url]http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/02/hour-of-power.html[/url]
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby the other Steve Dennis » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Good Luck to everyone planning to do a 12hr.
I would love to do another even after my not so happy previous attempt.
I honestly think that it was just a bad day on the bike and we all get those now and again.

I wasn't too serious about setting a great tie etc - just wanted to do it. This time I would definitely push for 240miles. Though next time I will also be much less fit and lucky to finish.

My previous longest tt was a 25. Probably not the best preparation - but most of you will have more experience than that, especially Sylv. But in the weeks leading up to it we did a few long steady rides - I think the longest was 180 (160) miles. If you can ride 160 miles on a group ride you can ride 12 hours alone - not that you are really alone as the comradery from other riders and helpers and officials certainly pushes you too.

Have fun with it guys. Think of Eddie and the other ACC Classics whilst you are at it.
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:25 am

[quote]I'd love to see an average power trace for a 12hour TT from one of the really good exponents like Rich V


:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby huw williams » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:01 pm

Oh don't get jealous - you know it's you I love the mostest of the testers - but you use heart rate not power
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Robh » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:14 pm

[quote="huw williams"]Makes perfect sense - even in a 1 hour session on the power tap I can plot a significant 'drift' in HR - the higher the intensity and longer the ride, the greater the drift

It also explains this from PVT - "the first 4 hours seemed so slow that I felt like I'd just been down to the shops, but the last 4 hours at the same pace were incredibly tough."

Slightly simplistically, this is why power training is so much more effective - if you stick to a target HR your power drifts off so you're not training as effectively towards the end of a session - if you stick to a target power value - you'r heart rate will begin to increase over time and the perceived effort will creep up, making the ride progressively harder. After a 5 hour 'endurance' ride a couple of weeks ago I was chewing the bar tape struggling so hard to hold a measly 200w which earlier in the ride I was struggling to stay below :D

I'd love to see an average power trace for a 12hour TT from one of the really good exponents like Rich V


I've looked @ preiouvs 4hr rides from last year and my heart rate & power in the first half of the ride compared to the 2nd half of the ride was within +/-2 bpm/Watts. The power output for these rides were 205W AV 230NP. I would say these rides were steady state for me. Huw, Your body is tryin gto tell you someting with the drift. I posted this text here earlier from another forum which answres Tok's take on hear rate drift :-

Love his description of Heart Rate being like training with an old friend...I feel the same way. The difference is, I like training with my old friends.

I know I am preaching to the converted, but perhaps your cycling mate will be interested to hear another opinion. Juerg has already written hundreds of pages about using HR and wattage in place of either alone.

I will just focus on one part of your friend's comment, the heart rate drift.

So the athlete uses his wattage meter to do a "steady state" ride, and then notices (if he looks at his HR in addition to his wattage), that after some time, his heart rate "drifts" to a new position. Now he makes a choice...keep riding at the same wattage, believing he is still riding at "steady state", or take the information his body is giving him that something has changed.

It may be he is now warmed up, and the arterioles in his leg muscles have dilated, requiring a faster heart rate to supply enough blood to fill the bigger pool of blood being drawn into his legs.

It may be he is producing more lactate, by the process of glycolysis, and his body is trying to distribute it to non-working muscles, or to slow twitch fibers that can better utilize it as a fuel.

It may be that his respiratory system has fatigued, and he is now requiring more breaths to eliminate the rising level of CO2 in his body which resulted from the increase in glycolytic activity.

In any case, his body is certainly no longer experiencing a "steady state" workout. This is not to say, he won;t get benefit form the session...he just won't know which part of his system he worked with to get the benefits he needs.

He is certainly correct in assuming HR monitors are holding amateur athletes back from improving their fitness, especially if they do not understand how they can be used to give very accurate feedback of the bodies current cardiovascular situation, which does change with temperature, effort, nutrition etc.
Last edited by Robh on Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Snoop Doug » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:26 pm

[quote="huw williams"]Oh don't get jealous - you know it's you I love the mostest of the testers - but you use heart rate not power


Awwwwwww - innit nice. And so close to valentine's too :oops:


Once upon a time I was falling in love
But now I'm only falling apart
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of the heart
Once upon a time there was light in my life
But now there's only love in the dark
Nothing I can say
A total eclipse of the heart

:mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Andrew G » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:28 pm

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Riding down to Brighton,
It's PVT and Huw.
:mrgreen:
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby mlocke » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:24 pm

Andrew - You obviously have far too much time on your hands!!
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Elliot M » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:18 pm

[quote="richv"]
In my 3 12-hours I have ridden for approx 11h57m, 12h05m, and 11h50m. First ride I stopped for a pee once and that was it. Second ride I didn't stop...


Absolutely unbelievable! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Assuming you didn't roll up a shorts leg TDF style, did you carefully drink/eat just enough not to require offloading?

Massive respect to anyone insane enough to give it a go.
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Sylv » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:41 pm

So, we're agreed that a conventional road bike is the best option for this?

I will fit my 50mm aero wheels. I am hoping to get some cash vouchers (fingers crossed) from a bike shop for the Gorrick race series, if so I was looking at this set (bars + extensions) for £80 to fit on my bike:

[img]http://www.ultimatepursuits.co.uk/external/1/products/highres/prs320505.jpg[/img]
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:17 pm

Absolutely perfect - job done :D
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Alboy » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:33 pm

I did a 12 Hour on my Mountain bike with full Mud tyres and completed 166 Miles on the Essex roads. Mostly the A12.
I got the press clips to prove it.
If I can help with assistance please let me know.
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Re: 12h TT August questions:

Postby Andrew G » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:12 am

[quote="Alboy"]I did a 12 Hour on my Mountain bike with full Mud tyres and completed 166 Miles on the Essex roads. Mostly the A12.

:shock: Bloody hell, well done.
Not worth getting a pair of slicks for just the one TT I suppose :lol: .
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