Newbies and 4th Cat racers: Where art thou?

[Toks]

Ok this post is obviously generated on the back of Paul, Orv and Mark's recent comments. Just when the winter got going there were a flurry of post re road racing in 2008. If I remember correctly one of the main protagonists was Michelle who we all know is now skiing. So what happened to the rest of you? There was a fantastic turn out at the ACC Club Road Race and a few folks said they were gonna give racing a go. Its your club guys if there's thing we can do to help motivate and get you racing let us know: a dedicated newbie racers groups (19s surely?); race pace training; how to get started thread etc etc

Its a good time to get going to cause former campaigners such as Marco, Huw and Ajay are gonna rejoin the racing bandwagon at some stage -if only briefly I know the "sportive" is that new good looking girl/guy in the office, but thrilling as they are there's nothing like the buzz of a 'real' race. So in the words of South Cental LA's greatist wordsmith - Snoop Dawg: Lets Do This

[mlocke]

Hi

Yes I like the idea of a slower training group. Should be going to Brighton on Saturday but would be v. interested in joining this group the week after. What sort of speeds would people in the group be capable of? I was going to join the 19's this week for my first forray after a lenghty spell in the 18's.


Also, what about a simple step by step guide for new racers - sticky on the forum / section on the website. Specifically designed for people who know nothing about it, including things like, what you need, where you can get it, the different places to race, the speeds the races are done at (roughly), how the cat 4,3,2.... system works along with something the same for the budding TT'ers out there.

Possibly this could be extended to being a printable booklet to be given to new ACC'ers interested.

The knowlege is obviously within the club to produce a really informative pack - its just getting to know, and speaking to the correct people

Mark

[Snoop Doug]

There's a 10 mile TT on the G0/57 @ end of May (31st), I previously suggested it as a good intro for newbies. It is a flattish course and it's a southern counties event so anyone entering gets a point for the Rwason Shield.

In advance of this I would be very willing to organise an informal try out of the course. It's near Horsham so what I suggest would be an alt club run that goes down to Rusper where we can then have a tank round the course and head back via a caff. At least this way you'd get a feel for belting along the track in advance, get a feel for it yada yada. Also - if we put a marker where the finish is - you can get an unofficial ten time, which is nice So - if anyone fancies this please shout up (I ain't goin' on me own ) and I'll organise a date.

Snoop - the slowest tester in town

[Andrew G]

[quote="mlocke"]What sort of speeds would people in the group be capable of? I was going to join the 19's this week for my first forray after a lenghty spell in the 18's.

[Ivor]

[quote="Snoop Doug"]So - if anyone fancies this please shout up (I ain't goin' on me own ) and I'll organise a date.

[mlocke]

[quote]Andrew G on Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:16 am

mlocke wrote:
What sort of speeds would people in the group be capable of? I was going to join the 19's this week for my first forray after a lenghty spell in the 18's.

Mark you are easily good enough for the 19s and should've been there ages ago ya shirker

[Andrew G]

[quote]Might be quite interesting to do the CR in reverese too as I will have no idea where we are or when the hills and thigns are coming!!

[Antloony]

Im liking all these ideas so far, I think it would be great to put together a different training group aimed at us riders just setting out into the scary world of racing. As Andrew stated it would be good practice to launch attacks if you felt strong enough and for the others to then chase down, it just raises the pace enough to make it a good training exercise without killing ourselves tying to hang on to the back of a group thats to fast for us...or me

and Mark, your a quicker rider than me and I can manage the 19's now so you'll be fine.

[Jonathan B]

I would be very intrested in a B training group.

[MJ_1993]

how about a junior training group, say 14 mph

I should have another youth coming along to the CR this saturday. People think he looks as if he is my brother. BUT HE IS NOT!

[mlocke]

One point that would be worth looking at is the abilities of the the members within the group. I read the reports from the training group and normally they all stay reasonably together.

The last thing I would want is to go in this group and be dropped by the lead riders becasue they should really have gone in the 'proper' training group. Likewise the other way round. People would have to understand before rolling out of CSS that the group may not be as accomodating if you are struggling.

This would be a delicate balance to maintain as I think a VC works well in keeping things together in the normal groups.

Possibly would be something that a feel is made for when trying it out

[Ivor]

So lets give it a go and see what happens.
aim for 19/20mph? leave after the main training group and see how far they get before we pass them?

[quote]People would have to understand before rolling out of CSS that the group may not be as accommodating if you are struggling.

[quote]CBC for me this week too

[Andrew G]

My plan was CR in reverse (Chipstead Valley first - think this could be better than the normal route as we won't get in any other groups way and will be on quieter roads sooner), B training group, 18-20mph abilities who want to have a go at racing. We 'll wait until we are round the corner and past the lights before "lighting matches".

Once out of the heavier traffic we can work it from there. I'm far from the most experienced racer but am happy to offer what tips I can (and those I've nicked from John Leitch (Surrey League coach) and PVT when I've done training sessions they've run). Basically once we're on our way it should be hard riding but not everyman for himself or it's only race training to race like London Dynamo . You have to work together as a group to pull someone back etc.

Occaisional digs/attacks from someone if they want to test some legs to make others work to hang on or try and put a gap in, but we should keep the group together in the main rather than just scatter everyone all over the place (a bit of fast through and off never does and harm to keep you on your toes). If anyone is suffering then shout so we can ease up and just ride tempo until they've recovered. Racing isn't just balls out from the start to the finish, there will be lulls in the action so the B training group shouldn't be just constant attacks and chasing. Any hills are fair game to attack on but rather than just keep the hammer down off the top it would be best to just hold the gap a bit to let the others work harder than you are to gradually bridge back.

No stupid risks taken, still look out for others (pothles etc - we are club mates after all), and no jumping over junctions and the like to make an attack as that's just dangerous and likely to cause an accident.

This will be a learning experience as well so it's unlikely to go like clockwork first time, but should help those who fancy racing experience a more lively CR with a bit of race training thrown in. We could even stop at certain points and chuck in the odd training exercise. Please remember if you are interested in this IT IS NOT A RACE - Open roads, traffic, no marshals, no medical assistance. We don't want to be phoning for Huw and his panniers of plasters .

Any thoughts from training group regulars; those with plenty of race experience; coaches etc gratefully received.

8th March for the first one, I'll let Monty know in advance so he can call the group out and we can try and set off as one of the early groups.

[Stu Merckx Man]

my thoughts are:

i think that a B training group should basically be a training group with people of the same ability. i think it should be balls out the hole way for them to make sure they get the maximum training from it- after all you want to over compensate on the fitness front so that you can be as comfortable as possible with the pace of a race. i dont think it should be concentrating on tactics of racing, there is no substitute for a real race. it should be a training group, in the litteral sense in that you get the maximum amount of fitness out of it. thats all that happens in the regular training group. the attacks are thrown in just to make eachother hurt, and to get maximum training and fun.

the only racing tactics that can be done effectively in a training group are just the through and off and the sprint, thats all you really need to know.

i also think that the most important thing is not to over police a B training group, let it be free like the normal training group is, dont label it with a speed or anything. at the end of the day people will know if they can keep up with it just by looking at whos in it. the training group keeps an order just by how fast they go, by keeping people in line.

when it comes to doing turns on the front, dont worry about doing it in a neat order shouting for a 'change' at the front- if someone is tired all they have to do is pull over. or if someone is feeling good, all they have to do is ride up the side of the group and plonk themselves on the front. the training group is almost exclusively done in 1 single line, so this form of doing turns on the front is easy to master. the only time you will need some sort of 'doing a turn' dicipline is on the through and off.

on the attacking side of things, contrary to popular belief we dont always attack each other. we often go training group rides without a single attack, so dont feel obliged to

thats my thoughts on what it should be like. but i guess it depends on what you guys are looking for in a B training group. if some people just want a fast, neat, diciplined ride then they should join a 20 group. if people are looking for a group free from the usual red tape, where they can go hard where they want and when they want, and want to get a maximum amount of training then they should join the B training group. (this would be the most benificial for would be racers)

after a while when you are all used to it and get to know eachothers riding inside out, and gain the mentality of the training group (it will come ), it will turn into an organic form of its own, and will shift and change without a command being ordered, it will flow like a beautiful express train
i like to think of it like an anarchist group, but where there is a consensus on what is going on.