Awesome report George, truly an inspiration to mere mortals like meself. I've some intervals scheduled for tonight, your words will keep me going.
I'd mark this a 99%er - you missed the tongue out oppo of a lifetime!!
Well done to everyone who took part - what a belter.
Tidy - Snoop
WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
61 posts
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Re: WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
by Snoop Doug » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:12 am
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Re: WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
by Sylv » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:14 am
Yesterday I was reading this interesting post on singletrack about what people thought made the difference between Elite racers and us mere mortals, a few agreed that first and foremost it was the ability to self-inflict pain onto themselves repeatedly and for long lengths of time.
To keep going at a hard pace for over an hour like George did after getting dropped doesn't really surprise us from him, but as he said there weren't any other people in the race who did so.
Now I think about some of the mountain bike races I've done and realise that I thought or wrote "really enjoyed that race, the course etc ...", well maybe I shouldn't be thinking that and rather feel a taste of blood and be unable to do much for an hour after the race, like some top guys said they did. I like to ride hard but putting myself through pain (that's the level above "riding hard") is not something I'll do naturally, so I'll need to keep that in mind and work a bit harder when it hurts, instead of easing off a bit.
Tried it out last night and this morning - rode down to CSS with what I thought was a tailwind, hammering it all the way like if I was in a chaingang and someone was going to replace me at the front. Turned back at the roundabout and sprinted up the climb, realising the slight wind was actually coming from the South so I could keep hammering even faster on the way back too, with the help of a few cars/vans as the traffic is always denser in that direction. That felt really good ... err sorry meant it was really painful
To keep going at a hard pace for over an hour like George did after getting dropped doesn't really surprise us from him, but as he said there weren't any other people in the race who did so.
Now I think about some of the mountain bike races I've done and realise that I thought or wrote "really enjoyed that race, the course etc ...", well maybe I shouldn't be thinking that and rather feel a taste of blood and be unable to do much for an hour after the race, like some top guys said they did. I like to ride hard but putting myself through pain (that's the level above "riding hard") is not something I'll do naturally, so I'll need to keep that in mind and work a bit harder when it hurts, instead of easing off a bit.
Tried it out last night and this morning - rode down to CSS with what I thought was a tailwind, hammering it all the way like if I was in a chaingang and someone was going to replace me at the front. Turned back at the roundabout and sprinted up the climb, realising the slight wind was actually coming from the South so I could keep hammering even faster on the way back too, with the help of a few cars/vans as the traffic is always denser in that direction. That felt really good ... err sorry meant it was really painful
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Re: WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
by huw williams » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:51 am
[quote="Sylv"]Yesterday I was reading this interesting post on singletrack about what people thought made the difference between Elite racers and us mere mortals, a few agreed that first and foremost it was the ability to self-inflict pain onto themselves repeatedly and for long lengths of time.
In essence that's correct although its a little more complicated than that. For example a really keen amateur might have the ability to absolutely bury himself for the entire race and the desire to hurt himself as much as an Elite rider, but if he hasn't got the sufficient power, efficiency in using it and tactical nous as to when to use it to call on, then he's not going to win the race. You often see the guy who wins the biggest hardest stages in the tours is the guy who doesn't look like he's inflicting the most pain on himself - Think of Armstrong winning in the alps and looking relatively fresh compared to those who appear to be 'killing' themselves but getting dropped. This is because Armstrong was the strongest rider and if we assume that this wasn't down to devious practices, then it means he trained either harder or smarter (possily both) than his rivals which might certainly include being able to inflict more pain on himself than any of his competitors.
Self inflicting pain in training or racing is essentially long periods spent riding at your threshold while making occasional forays into the territory above it (chasing down breaks etc) and recovering from them. In esence its why you hear the word 'Threshold' used so much when you see training programmes and coaching plans. The longer you can stay at threshold, and the more power you can generate whilst there, the more effectively you'll race. It bloody hurts is the thing!!!
As a mountain bike racer, particularly an endurance specialist, you've got a superb grounding in this area because off road races don't give you the benefit of drafting and sitting in a group to recover - the whole time is generally spent right at your threshold from the moment you sprint off the line to be first rider into the singletrack.
The training group rides and chain gangs are similarly good for that reason. As soon as you start to feel the pace relent, someone who's been sititing in and recovering gets on the front or attacks and raises the pain level again.
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Re: WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
by Sylv » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:16 pm
[quote]In essence that's correct although its a little more complicated than that. For example a really keen amateur might have the ability to absolutely bury himself for the entire race and the desire to hurt himself as much as an Elite rider, but if he hasn't got the sufficient power, efficiency in using it and tactical nous as to when to use it to call on, then he's not going to win the race
I think we all agree on that (the STW post started as a guy who out of the blue said he was going to try and race mtb at an Elite level as he had some free time, with no other info on his background, cue a lot of derisory comments! I'll find the post if you want) but it is nonetheless an essential component.
The other thing I have been thinking of for a while is that, the reason why you might watch a pro racing and it doesn't look like he's suffering in a 2 hour race, is that for him (unlike us) the race is not actually that hard, in comparison with the hours of training he'd done, some of which at race intensity (and possibly harder at times). Ok you will always be able to push yourself a bit more in a race and alongside other riders, but the gap between training and racing is not actually that big for them.
That's why I like the training group and chaingang, they can actually be harder than races, and force you above your comfort level.
Last edited by Sylv on Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
by Sylv » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:19 pm
ps i promise as soon as i can borrow that powertap wheel off you Huw I will have a go at a 2*20 on my new turbo
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Sylv - lives on this board 24/7!!!
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Re: WALLY GIMBER- paul, sylv, george we are in!
by huw williams » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:02 pm
[quote="Sylv"][quote]The other thing I have been thinking of for a while is that, the reason why you might watch a pro racing and it doesn't look like he's suffering in a 2 hour race, is that for him (unlike us) the race is not actually that hard, in comparison with the hours of training he'd done.
This is exactly right - a traditional coaches maxim states "train hard - race easy"
[quote="Sylv"][quote] That's why I like the training group and chaingang, they can actually be harder than races, and force you above your comfort level.
Perfectly put. The reason I stopped racing religiously on saturdays at Hillingdon a few years back was that all available data was telling me that riding with the club-run fast groups was a better quality ride for much longer. Throw in the time taken to get to Hillingdon and back (when I could've been riding) plus the cost, and basically I was having a very expensive, time consumming day out with little benefit other than a high speed tow round a piece of waste ground for an hour. I'd rather get a high(er) speed tow round the lanes of Surrey with some mates at no cost and get a better training effect.
I've seen many riders fall into this trap because racing is so addictive - when you get to the level where you can comforatblly sit in the bunch, get involved in a couple of breaks and sprints, there's nothing more enjoyable, but a lot of riders get there and stay there... forever!!! That's fine if thats all they want but surely the point of training is to get better?
