TT Bike

Are you thinking about starting racing? Ask about future events in here, find out what you can expect at them and who else is going so you can scrounge a lift off someone rather than riding the 30 miles to get there yourself!

Re: TT Bike

Postby richv » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:59 pm

[quote="orv"][quote="richv"]Ivor if you want to get the benefits of a disk without the cost the aero wheel covers are worth every penny.

Where did you get them from?


[url]http://www.wheelbuilder.com[/url]
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Snoop Doug » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:54 pm

[quote="richv"][quote="orv"][quote="richv"]Ivor if you want to get the benefits of a disk without the cost the aero wheel covers are worth every penny.

Where did you get them from?


[url]http://www.wheelbuilder.com[/url]



Ivor, et al, I'm going to give this a try. Pearsons are knocking me up a mavic open pro 32 spoke campag hub wheel for £115. I've ordered the disk covers now from wheelbuilder. Question - what if any special tools might I need to get the cassette off my regular wheel? Does anyone have such a tool and can I borrow it when all the other bits are made? I would gladly pay a cake and/or beer related fee :wink:

Woohoo - funny noises here we come :shock:
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Andrew G » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:13 pm

[quote="richv"][quote="Andrew G"][quote="Jon Hemming"]And vice-versa. I can't do anything near 300W, but regularly go under the hour.

Ah, the difference between pedaling and power output. Paul, you are very smooth like Jon so can probably go very quickly for less power. People have done 55 minute 25s on 72" fixed gear which will be more to do with leg speed and smoothness than power.


Rubbish :)

Can you explain Rich? If Jon says he doesn't do 300 watts but regularly goes under the hour then does he not achieve it through aerodynamics, smoothness, and leg speed?

You have got to be smooth and spin your legs quickly to do that sort of time on 72" gear. There's got to be a limit to the amount of power put down to speed of pedal revolution and keep the motion fluid. A smooth efficient pedaling action will produce the same result for less power as it wastes less.

As an aside for those who laugh at fixed wheel as old fashioned for a 25 mile TT Zak Carr did a 53.23 on 72" fixed and Mr. Technology himself, Chris Boardman, did 45.57 on 110" fixed when he was training for the hour record.
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Dominic » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:41 pm

[quote="Snoop Doug"]

Ivor, et al, I'm going to give this a try. Pearsons are knocking me up a mavic open pro 32 spoke campag hub wheel for £115. I've ordered the disk covers now from wheelbuilder. Question - what if any special tools might I need to get the cassette off my regular wheel? Does anyone have such a tool and can I borrow it when all the other bits are made? I would gladly pay a cake and/or beer related fee :wink:


Snoop let us know when you need the tools and we can sort something out.
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Toks » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:31 pm

[quote="Andrew G"]Paul, you are very smooth like Jon so can probably go very quickly for less power. People have done 55 minute 25s on 72" fixed gear which will be more to do with leg speed and smoothness than power.
Oh deary me Mr Green what on earth are you on about. :oops: Whenever you ride a bike assuming you're not coasting down hill you're producing power. So assuming two riders are identical in weight, bike position etc and one rides at 70rpms in a big gear the other 110rpms in a low gear and both achieve 25mph (eg 280watts)its still the same power output. In the case of the former you'll applying more force to the pedals (higher gear) with lower leg speed; in the latter you're more relaint on leg speed and less pedal force (lower gear). er...smoothness has nothing to do with it. In TT's its power relative to frontal drag which Rich has correctly alluded to. :D
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Re: TT Bike

Postby -Adam- » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:43 pm

Thanks Toks, I was going to point that out earlier but I had bigger fish (BT Broadband!) to fry!
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Re: TT Bike

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:59 am

[quote="Dominic"][quote="Snoop Doug"]

Ivor, et al, I'm going to give this a try. Pearsons are knocking me up a mavic open pro 32 spoke campag hub wheel for £115. I've ordered the disk covers now from wheelbuilder. Question - what if any special tools might I need to get the cassette off my regular wheel? Does anyone have such a tool and can I borrow it when all the other bits are made? I would gladly pay a cake and/or beer related fee :wink:


Snoop let us know when you need the tools and we can sort something out.


No problem Doug if it's anything Campag

Ommmmmmmmm
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Andrew G » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:03 am

[quote="Toks"]Oh deary me Mr Green what on earth are you on about. :oops:

:lol: Playing devil's advocate a lot of the time :D .
I'm no scientist, as I'm sure a lot of people aren't, but sometimes it gets a bit "watty" which I think can be offputting to people new to the sport/club and who may want to try some racing. Sorry, I'll get back in my box.

[quote]er...smoothness has nothing to do with it

It looks better :D .
Would it not be linked to your pedaling efficiency? Would that not translate as less wasted effort?
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Re: TT Bike

Postby richv » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:17 am

[quote="Andrew G"][quote="richv"][quote="Andrew G"]Ah, the difference between pedaling and power output. Paul, you are very smooth like Jon so can probably go very quickly for less power. People have done 55 minute 25s on 72" fixed gear which will be more to do with leg speed and smoothness than power.


Rubbish :)

Can you explain Rich? If Jon says he doesn't do 300 watts but regularly goes under the hour then does he not achieve it through aerodynamics, smoothness, and leg speed?

You have got to be smooth and spin your legs quickly to do that sort of time on 72" gear. There's got to be a limit to the amount of power put down to speed of pedal revolution and keep the motion fluid. A smooth efficient pedaling action will produce the same result for less power as it wastes less.

As an aside for those who laugh at fixed wheel as old fashioned for a 25 mile TT Zak Carr did a 53.23 on 72" fixed and Mr. Technology himself, Chris Boardman, did 45.57 on 110" fixed when he was training for the hour record.


What Toks said.

Smooth pedalling does not make you go faster. Producing power does. Maybe by pedalling smoothly you can produce more power (although there is at least one peer-reviewed article which suggests that in general pro-riders 'mash' rather that pedal smoothly) but its the power that makes you move not the smoothness of your pedalling.

From my figures I would guess that Jon averages about 290w during a race. I'd be interested to know what the actual figure is although I suspect that Jon himself doesn't know. If it's much less than that it will be because he has a very good aerodynamic position and is a small git :wink: who doesn't take up very much room so he has a very low drag factor.
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Ivor » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:07 am

[quote="Snoop Doug"]Question - what if any special tools might I need to get the cassette off my regular wheel?

Dead easy job once you've done it once and got a favourite technique for the cassette removal tool.

Basically you need a chain whip, a little socket that matches the make of your cassette (I have a shimano one) and a torque wrench. Then it's just a matter of putting the whip around the sprockets, and undoing the lock nut.
Gently remove the cassette cogs making a note of the location of the spacers (although if you're putting a new one on then the manual with the new one will have a handy diagram). Pop a bit of grease/anti-sieze on the new one and pop it on.
Use the torque wrench to get the right tightness.
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Jon H » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:09 am

You're right Rich, I don't know what power I produce in a race because I haven't used my Powertap in a race. But I know what figures I've seen on the turbo trainer and guesstimated from those. Last time I did any proper work on the turbo was in June last year, I was putting out 185W at 85% max HR, 200W at 90% HR, and was doing 5 minute intervals at 250W (which I was just about able to complete) . So I'd say I'm putting out something quite a bit less than your 290W estimate during a race.

[quote="richv"]If it's much less than that it will be because he has a very good aerodynamic position and is a small git :wink: who doesn't take up very much room so he has a very low drag factor.
That's pretty much hit the nail on the head, although I might be inclined to disagree with the "git" part.
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Re: TT Bike

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:51 pm

Can you get over to the Power section of the forum and stop hijacking this thread
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Re: TT Bike

Postby Ivor » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:59 pm

[quote="richv"][quote="orv"][quote="richv"]Ivor if you want to get the benefits of a disk without the cost the aero wheel covers are worth every penny.

Where did you get them from?


[url]http://www.wheelbuilder.com[/url]


How much was the shipping? any problems with customs?
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Re: TT Bike

Postby richv » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:40 pm

Can't remember what the shipping was I'm afraid. No problems with customs, they ship to the UK regularly and you're unlikely to be charged anything extra.
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Re: TT Bike

Postby mrP(Boonen)VT » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:47 pm

That's better :D
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