HR v Power

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]Example :-

240 watts can be one day perfect Slow Twitch Fibre training with good respiration and good RPM . In a fatigued stage of any of the systems 340 watts can be a "surviving " intensity with the need of Fast Twitch Fibre , high lactate, high HR and an overload of respiratory system.

So Yes it still was 240 watts the next day but with a completely different stress on your system .

So 240 watts just shows you your performance not the system you stressed.


Rob

[Robh]

[quote="Grahame"]So in summary:

If you want to ride faster, ride faster*





*but take a break every now and then to let your body recover.

[Daniel Gee]

mad thirsty rabid aggression works 4 me

it helps if you like to watch others suffer too

but hey thats bike racing

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]Toks think out of the box...Or you will never understand!

Do you know if your respiratory system is holding you back?

Do you know the Oxygen delivery system is holding you back?

Do you know if you have fully developed your structural system?

I can't answer yall our question but if you willing to think out of the box and let me do a Level 2 test then we can look at your wekanesses!

If you want to learn more come onto the FaCT-Canada forum and Juerg can answer your question (pm for the link) or carry on as you are it's your choice!

I was warned the people who don't want to think out of the box will be reistant to the FaCT ideas.

Rob

[quote="Toks"][quote="Robh"]Example :-

240 watts can be one day perfect Slow Twitch Fibre training with good respiration and good RPM . In a fatigued stage of any of the systems 340 watts can be a "surviving " intensity with the need of Fast Twitch Fibre , high lactate, high HR and an overload of respiratory system.

So Yes it still was 240 watts the next day but with a completely different stress on your system .

So 240 watts just shows you your performance not the system you stressed.


Rob

[Robh]

I can see I'm not going to win this argument and I don't intend to as I said I just wanted to share ideas.

Good luck with your season Toks! Next time you have a bad day on the bike think which system was limiting you on that day? Come back to me and I will have a look into it.

Rob

[-Adam-]

Ok Rob,

So in theory at least... After 5 consecutive days of training/racing from last wednesday to sunday (with limited sleep also). Which culiminated in my longest ever race, almost 3 hours, on Sunday. I was obviously fairly tired. With much Uni work to do I didn't have time to train/do recovery rides yesterday or monday.

Today I rode for 90 minutes, and for more or less the first 60mins, my legs felt rather heavy. But as the last 30mins of the ride drew to a close, I felt good again. Strong and fast.

Can you please offer up an explanation as to what was going on in my body through the past 72hours or so...??

Cheers...

[Rob C]

Why don't you make it tough for him Adam? Perhaps he could recite your life story to date followed by predictions for the next 20 years

[Robh]

[quote="-Adam-"]Ok Rob,

So in theory at least... After 5 consecutive days of training/racing from last wednesday to sunday (with limited sleep also). Which culiminated in my longest ever race, almost 3 hours, on Sunday. I was obviously fairly tired. With much Uni work to do I didn't have time to train/do recovery rides yesterday or monday.

Today I rode for 90 minutes, and for more or less the first 60mins, my legs felt rather heavy. But as the last 30mins of the ride drew to a close, I felt good again. Strong and fast.

Can you please offer up an explanation as to what was going on in my body through the past 72hours or so...??

Cheers...

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]For the last 3 months I've been using Heart Rate Variability on my polar watch to gauge my cardio recovery. Now I have have 02 sat and a brain to count breahting frequency I can check my pulmonary system.

[Ian A4size]

Can you please offer up an explanation as to what was going on in my body through the past 72hours or so...??

About 6 pints of leffe, 4 sausage sandwiches, 2 quiche, and a large twix- if Sundays BBQ was anything to go by!

[quote="Toks"][quote="Robh"]For the last 3 months I've been using Heart Rate Variability on my polar watch to gauge my cardio recovery. Now I have have 02 sat and a brain to count breahting frequency I can check my pulmonary system.

[-Adam-]

So is that proof in the pudding that longer steady rides are in fact good for you!? I knew I spent hours on my bike over the winter for something, lets face it the combined experience of the people I listen too can't be that wrong. I'm stronger than I have ever been right now, and just feel like I can ride and ride.

Back to my original query Rob.

Last Weds, 90 mins fast tempo stuff, about 240w av, around 160bpm, 240w is approximately my lactate turnpoint.
Thurs, 200mins, some threshold work, about 50mins, rest around 210w av.
Fri, 90mins at 210w
Sat, CR 180mins @ 185w av, 155bpm av
Sun, 170mins @ 260w, 169bpm av

So like I say, a fairly tough 5 days. I think my dead leg feeling was to do with a lack of warm down on sunday after the race. And poor immediate post race recovery, i.e standing around at a BBQ as previously mentioned with a couple of beers, and greasy BBQ food. So I would imagine it was a delayed action of recovery and fuel replenishment that lead to my dead legs. But like I say, after 60mins they soon got going again, thoughts?

[Robh]

Regarding long steady rides yes...According to FaCT if it is in the correct zone which is FFA. Using the FaCT test I could tell you that. Problem with the standard lactate threshold test they use absolute number unlike trends, your lactate numbers can be affected by your diet.

Example if you do the test with your glycogen stores full your lactate numbers will be higher compared to doing the same test 3 days later being glycogen depleted. The reason why because their is more lactate in the system which is a byproduct of glucose being broken down by the liver. The standard test uses absolute numbers and with 2 different results which test is correct?

The standard test says if you’re over 4mmol your anaerobic. At the Joshua Tree FaCT camp they measured people's lactate values pre and post breakfast. Pre breakfast values ranged between 1mmol to 2mmol post breakfast 4.5mmol plus. Does this mean when these people were eating they were doing an anaerobic workout according to the standard test protocol?

Adam when you had your test can you remember how much you ate and if your glycogen stores were full when you next got tested? Most people probably wouldn't know.

Most university studies have show interval training is always wins versus long steady rides because the studies only last 6-8 weeks. The improvements from steady rides in your Free Fatty Zone (FFA) takes years and the gains are smaller initially so not so impressive initially.

One of the most impressive people, where the slower worked better & showed an incredible change was Mark Allen Iron Man champion. He just trained too fast and too hard and one of the delivery systems (The FFA oxygen dependent delivery group) was not trained well and he never had the ability at the end to keep up with D. Scott. Once they included this system into the workout he was able to give the other system Glucose oxygen dependent delivery a less heavy workload and they had some efficiency left at the end of the race.

Might have to seek advice on your question Adam if you want an answer. I do know a proper cool down is important and so is nutrition after a workout to reduce this catabolic effect where your body is still working after you have finished the race.

I will email and ask and it's good for me to know as well.

Rob

[kieran]

em, my take on Robs post is as follows:

Say like today i did a 2X20 this morning, going by heart rate, I kept it around 173bpm. As I was feeling very fresh (no racing at Palace) maybe at for this session 173bpm= XXX Watts, so that if I had a power meter I would have been trying to keep my power around XXX W.

Tomorrow i will do another 2x20, again I will try to keep my hr around 173bpm, but this time due to todays session I probably will not be putting out XXX Watts but say YYY Watts (where YYY< XXX). If I was training by power alone I might try to aim for the XXX Watts level I did today. But as I will be not as fresh for me to keep at XXX Watts might mean my hr going into 180bpm or more and this will push me into over 90% max heart rate and I couldn't keep this for a 2x20.

Power tells me what I am producing but heart rate tells me how hard my body is working and some days it might need to work harder, due to temperature, tiredness etc, to maintain the same amount of power that I could do before.