Okay, I've just skim read this thread. Its interesting. But the asthma stats do not represent the reality. There about a dozen kids in my year of 133 at school with asthma and that is an over estimate.
And girls go through puberty and stuff, so that is probably a major influence on not joining a club because they have a lot to deal with. Whereas testosterone fuelled boys generally play sport in order to release aggression and control the side effects of various hormones.
Plus road cycling is a rather expensive sport to the outsider, and a kid doesnt have that money to spare. And after doing a 2hr 30 long economics exam, one of the source papers showed that girls indeed spend more than boys on average per week. So its a toss up between an inner tube or a few quid to spend on whatever they want.
It demonstrates opportunity cost, and how a lot needs to be done to 'help' and persuade kids to get into sport and indeed cycling.
well thats my opinion from a 15 year old point of view anyway...
Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by MJ_1993 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:43 pm
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by MJ_1993 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:52 pm
wait, now that i have actually read the thread...did you guys miss puberty??? Oh dear o dear 
This thread is very interesting from my point, because it demonstrates the gap between generations and the change in society and their thoughts. It seems adults are (no offence) gradually sliding out of touch with the younger generation, which is dangerous when the current 'demonisation' (if you could call it that) of teenagers is rife among the media and in society is taken into consideration.
Maybe adults should talk to the kids???
Oh and if my sister slightly represents girls in their teens, they are very touchy about people and tend to be very judgemental about people (actually that tends to be most girls around my age). So i think 60 hairy men is not a good idea.
This thread is very interesting from my point, because it demonstrates the gap between generations and the change in society and their thoughts. It seems adults are (no offence) gradually sliding out of touch with the younger generation, which is dangerous when the current 'demonisation' (if you could call it that) of teenagers is rife among the media and in society is taken into consideration.
Maybe adults should talk to the kids???
Oh and if my sister slightly represents girls in their teens, they are very touchy about people and tend to be very judgemental about people (actually that tends to be most girls around my age). So i think 60 hairy men is not a good idea.
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by Roy Green » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:35 pm
An excellent piece of research, Huw, and some thoughtful observations on it, by you and others. Obviously first interest to serve is our own club, and there already seem to be some ideas bubbling about. Beyond this, I guess your report goes back to British Cycling. Does it go elsewhere? It deserves to; probably better than much 'activities for kids' reports, many of which seem to be a bit too political-correctness biased.
I am also a member of Blackheath & Bromley Harriers. This club is one of the best in the country as regards activity with young athletes, both sexes, from under 12s through to Senior level. 'Best' as regards both number and successes. Recent highlight is the sucess of Montell Douglas, now early 20s, has been in B&B since a kid; she has just set a new UK 100m record for women (11.05secs), and is going to Beijing in 4x100m relay team. Nationally and area-wise B&B yougsters pick up loads of titles.
The fact is, there is a good sticking rate for both boys and girls, through to Junior level (sadly, really good ones becoming Seniors tend to get poached by money-clubs). The reason must be B&B's great attention to attracting youngsters. We offer free 'Just For Fun' coaching at Norman Park track, don't have to join the club (most do). There are splits by age and gender groups, and each has a dedicated coach; several coaches 'graduate' from being mums and dads bringing their kid along . As regards the girls especially, they will therefore not feel pressured by being out of their peer groups.
This isn't intended to be a B&B plug (even if it reads so!) but to indicate that the right approach - which ACC certainly has, also - does get results.
I am also a member of Blackheath & Bromley Harriers. This club is one of the best in the country as regards activity with young athletes, both sexes, from under 12s through to Senior level. 'Best' as regards both number and successes. Recent highlight is the sucess of Montell Douglas, now early 20s, has been in B&B since a kid; she has just set a new UK 100m record for women (11.05secs), and is going to Beijing in 4x100m relay team. Nationally and area-wise B&B yougsters pick up loads of titles.
The fact is, there is a good sticking rate for both boys and girls, through to Junior level (sadly, really good ones becoming Seniors tend to get poached by money-clubs). The reason must be B&B's great attention to attracting youngsters. We offer free 'Just For Fun' coaching at Norman Park track, don't have to join the club (most do). There are splits by age and gender groups, and each has a dedicated coach; several coaches 'graduate' from being mums and dads bringing their kid along . As regards the girls especially, they will therefore not feel pressured by being out of their peer groups.
This isn't intended to be a B&B plug (even if it reads so!) but to indicate that the right approach - which ACC certainly has, also - does get results.
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by skippy » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:02 am
Both my daughters rode on the track out here. The facilitys are very good, and they were part of a junior group twice weekly. The ozzies just throw you in and they rode on a 250 m indoor wooden track with ages from 6 upwards!! on proper fixed bikes, got REALLY scarey at times. The adults and club juniors rode above the blue line. There were bikes for hire and girls and boys mix in together, at the end of the term there were time trials just to add that bit of competition, and some of these kids are completely fearless and quick!!
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by Rob C » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:48 am
Does ACC have aspirations for a youth section? If you have the facilities to offer free sessions to youngster I don't think it would be too difficult to get a lot of interest. The problem seems to be having the facilities as most parents aren't going to be too quick to send young children out cycling on main roads.
As for untapped talent etc I think it's only natural for a persons interests to change as they grow up. To be good is as much mental as physical, you could have the most physically advanced body in the world but if all you want to do is go out with your mates, have a laugh or eat chips in front of the tv you're not going to get very far.
I think there was some reearch that I read about retaining young athletes that pretty much said that only a very small percentage of children will stick to the same sport throughout their lives without a break and that interestingly young boys are harder to retain within a club then young girls??
As for untapped talent etc I think it's only natural for a persons interests to change as they grow up. To be good is as much mental as physical, you could have the most physically advanced body in the world but if all you want to do is go out with your mates, have a laugh or eat chips in front of the tv you're not going to get very far.
I think there was some reearch that I read about retaining young athletes that pretty much said that only a very small percentage of children will stick to the same sport throughout their lives without a break and that interestingly young boys are harder to retain within a club then young girls??
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by huw williams » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:49 am
[quote="Roy Green"]An excellent piece of research, Huw, and some thoughtful observations on it, by you and others. Obviously first interest to serve is our own club, and there already seem to be some ideas bubbling about. Beyond this, I guess your report goes back to British Cycling. Does it go elsewhere? It deserves to; probably better than much 'activities for kids' reports, many of which seem to be a bit too political-correctness biased.
Thanks Roy - Reports do indeed go back to British Cycling at the end of each session and I'll be sure to include some edited highlights from the excellent feedback here - don't stop by the way, it's discussions like these that help us improve the club.
And cheers Rob, on that point, see below
Some things happening in the immediate future:
Women's specific club run groups
This has been raised many times in the past and the main limiter seems to be that in any given group of ACC women only riders, the ability range would be so wide that some riders would be finding it very easy and some would be finding it way too hard. As we know from the regular saturday rides this is not good practice, which is why we split groups by different speeds. Are there enough women to create speed specific groups? Also the prospect of riding with a larger group of 'slower' men is probably more attractive to an inexperienced woman rider than joining a small, women only group made up of speed merchants like Tamar, Michelle and Chloe (come to think of it a lot of the men would think twice before getting involved with a group made up of Tamar, Michelle and Chloe
)I'm looking into the possibility of setting up a women's specific training group for the winter (meeting once a month). One problem I've come across with training days is that they rely too heavily on mixed ability group riding. The perception for inexperienced women is that they're constantly riding 'against' riders of a far higher standard much too early in their development. This puts a lot of them off from attending in the first place. For experienced women racers they simply find the sessions too easy.
Modern coaching steers clear of that and offers training days where the riders perform against their own ability limitations - so although a group of like minded women riders will be gathered together at a location on a given day (be it a track, closed circuit or road circuit) they'll be riding against targets determined by their own standard of riding rather than riding against each other in the competitive sense. Fast women will be training hard, novices much easier. We show them how to 'train' properly as opposed to just 'riding'. The emphasis is then on the individual to go out and do it and only when they feel comfortable do they progress on to the level of riding 'against' higher category riders with all the inherent benefits that that brings. If there's enough interest from the women in the club I'll make this happen. Over to you girls....
Junior, beginner and new member riders:
Currently I'm setting up a protocol whereby all riders in these categories (male and female) can join us for an initial coaching session(s) at a traffic-free location (in the croydon area) on the first saturday of every month. Here they learn the basics of what will be expected of them when they join the club run proper (essentially how to ride in a group without upsetting/killing themselves or other riders). The reason for this is that at the moment, anyone can turn up at CSS on saturday morning, join in and ride - we only have their word for it that they are A) familiar with riding in a group B) Have a basic understanding of bike handling techniques and C) Are fit enough to get as far as Merstham without having a heart attack.
At the moment we are legally within our rights to accept prospective members onto the club run and we can even take junior riders out if they have signed the parental consent form but this is far from best practice. The way things stand, any completely inexperienced rider can turn up and potentially find themselves crossing the awkward filter junction at the A23/M23 (top of Hooley) half knackered from the hill on the way up and completely intimidated by the other riders around them because they haven't previously ridden in a group. And they've got another 40 miles to go having only ever ridden round their local park in before.
Legal it might be but this is not good practice. I would like to see all new, inexperienced and junior riders join us for an initiation session (which I will lead in partnership with volunteer VCs) prior to their first club run so that they, and we know what's coming. If we're sure that we have done everything in our power to prepare all new riders for the experience - all VCs, group leaders and other existing members in the group will sleep easier, we can improve the Addiscombe experience of all potential new members and we can keep accidents to a minimum as the membership continue to grow.
I've discussed a format for these sessions with Peter Catermole (British Cycling's regional manager) and he's very excited - no other club is currently offering this service and we think Addiscombe could be pioneering a new initiative. Peter is coming to our next committee meeting in early september to discuss this and other aspects of the 'Go Ride' scheme which we're currently looking at so I hope to have everything in place by late september.
*By the way these sessions will be a load of fun and even the most experienced riders will take something away from them, so existing members will be encouraged to participate.
As always, your feedback is appreciated
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by mrP(Boonen)VT » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:56 am
[quote="marco"]I think that would be great, weve put a junior team into a 4 up before and it would be brilliant if we could put one or two teams together for these types of events. Win or lose its a lot of fun.
We have also had a women's team in the past. If memory serves correctly, Maria, Tamar, Linda and Robyn (?)
Guru P
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Re: Statistics: Young riders and the problem with girls on bikes
by Michelle » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:28 pm
Huw wrote [quote]If there's enough interest from the women in the club I'll make this happen. Over to you girls....
Well, you know what I am going to say.
[size=150]Yes Please ![/size]
I have pm'd some others that I think are interested and hopefully we may have a few. You should see the results over the next few days.
Any help required on this or the youth stuff, let me know.
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