AD : Que CERA CERA, whatever will be, will be

[Stu Merckx Man]

im not surprised.

im pretty dissapointed though, as i thought gerolstiener where meant to be one of the good guys? or was this just stefan going private?

[Alan M]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whatever_W ... Sera,_Sera) dah

[Tony]

Maybe I am unusually cycnical - but I struggle to see how more than a small (possibly very small) minority of the pro-peloton are clean and always have been throughout their career.

In any competitive field of life, where the rewards are disproportionate for success, where there are obviously weak and ineffective controls to ensure compliance with the various rules and regulations, where the risks of being caught are worth taking as those involved directly are not carrying the full consequences of their actions and where there are so many self-interests that the regulators are effectively in the pockets of those they are trying regulate, there will be plently of rule breaking. The only way to remain competitive is to lower your own standards as well or to give up and go and do something else. It's as true in the world of Finance as it is in the pro-peloton. The difference is that in Finance the chickens eventually come home to roost. In the pro-peloton things can remain pretty much hidden under the carpet forever.

Given his unique background, I'd love to believe Armstrong is one of those who did it cleanly. However, I'm not sure I actually believed in the first place, don't really feel like believing at the moment and probably won't believe ever again!

[John Czernobay]

I'm I missing something here . I thought the TdeF was back in June. In this day and age of "instant everything" how come it's taken so long to get the results? Is it the same out fit who mark the school exam papers?

Ride on
JohnCz..

[huw williams]

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic ... 658852.stm

[Paul H]

I think this could be quite positive. This drug has only been developed recently and athletes are getting caught straight away. Compare that to standard EPO which took years.

I think athletes will be far more wary about doping now.

[Alex P]

Great start to the post and subsequent thread but unfortunately we descend into the familiar conspiracy theories

[color=#0000FF]“[2] disappointed at the media but no mention from the UCI that they are disappointed at the riders who have cheated? Same old UCI...”[/color]

I have read through all of this and seemed to have missed something, plenty of rumours, no facts, nobody actually charged/accused/stripped of honours yet, so correct that the UCI are disappointed at the media releasing rumours and quite correct that they have not mentioned riders who have cheated as I cannot find any at the moment that relate to the article.

And then….

[color=#0000FF]“Maybe this is where the French federation president's chickens come home to roost! He was suspicious of Team GBs dominance on the track, but forgot to mention Les Bleurs awesome display in the mtb race!
If it turns out half of all the endurance athletes at the games were on cera I wonder whether we would ever be told?”[/color]

Perhaps I have read the context or missed the point, but there we go again back on the armchair expert mode, the implication if anybody has won anything ergo they “MUST” be on drugs.

How easily the British achievements at the Olympics (and Paralympics) are casually waved away with this statement. Perhaps you should meet some of their families who have probably given up as much if not more as the athletes themselves to help them achieve their goals and casually drop in that statement, or perhaps you wouldn’t as I’m not sure you would leave the room with your skin on.

[Dombo]

[quote="marco"]when I asked him that surely the texan comeback king wasnt on drugs (Id heard he was previously from a FOF who was the texans soigneur ..

[Stu Merckx Man]

[quote]It is impossible to fail a test for Autologous blood doping so that doesnt really help.

[Dombo]

[quote="marco"]Im assuming proof for you would either be a confession or a positive A&B test.

[Andrew G]

Autologous = Retro blood doping
Homologous = Modern blood doping

Retro blood doping has been going on for years and was probably one of the first forms of "cheating where you couldn't get caught". When it first came about the classic way to do it (and may still be the way most do it) is you drain a pint of blood out and then go and train at altitude to bring the red count back up to normal quickly, with the added bonus of altitude training. Then you come back down shove the extra pint back in and go turbo charged. The problem was always that how could you test someone and then say they had too much blood in their body?

I don't follow all the drugs (i.e. what you can take and what it does) but gather that when EPO came along it just did the same sort of thing without the time consuming faff of having to go to altitude and do some training.

[Alex P]

To clarify my post:

[quote]“Maybe this is where the French federation president's chickens come home to roost! He was suspicious of Team GBs dominance on the track, but forgot to mention Les Bleurs awesome display in the mtb race!

If it turns out half of all the endurance athletes at the games were on cera I wonder whether we would ever be told?”

[Alex P]

Marco wrote:

[quote]A serious question here - how many riders do you know who have ridden for pro teams internationally? Ive just realised thats where I had my eyes opened - I used to work with one very very succesful brit who was a household name many years ago and his outlook on doping really shocked me - take what you want, dont worry about the health risks cos its better to live an exciting life rather than be infirm in old age, dont worry about getting caught because only the stupid ones will, and in pro cycling everyone is on it.In the same job I met one of the 4 team managers (yes four, it was by all accounts a crazy team)of the last british team to enter in the TdF and it was the same story. Then I met more riders and the stories just carried on and got worse and worse with stories of observed blatant drug use in world cup junior and espoir races. And yep you guessed it, none of these riders got sanctioned.
A local chap who rode professionally in belgium (successfully) found it highly amusing when I asked him that surely the texan comeback king wasnt on drugs (Id heard he was previously from a FOF who was the texans soigneur and I didnt want to believe it as i was still a big fan then) . When I was disappointed and brought to mind hero number 2 I asked him "but what about Cippolini surely he's clean" - friendly pro nearly fell off his bike laughing at my naivete!

[Alex P]

Marco wrote:

[quote]The problem I really have with this is that we (the people who are pushing ACC and cycling) are promoting a sport here, and if we are going to take that promotion all the way to the top then with luck we will have more riders like Adam coming through the ranks that are going to be racing at the very highest level against people like this. You may be comfortable keeping the doping status quo (as the UCI seem to be) by only looking for positve drugs results where there is no actual test that can give a meaningful result (epo previously, microdosing and autologous blood doping currently) but I would rather people are awake to the whole picture so they know both what they are up against and what sort of behaviour really goes on in the 'sport' they want to support..

[Brian Robinson]

A question about autologous transfusions:

I understand that if it is your own blood that you can't test for it, but what about fluctuations between haemocrit/haemoglobin levels on a daily basis. How much can your natural levels move in any one day and what are the causes? Should going from 42% one day to 49% the next day in the middle of a Grand Tour not look a tad suspicious? If you transfuse in the morning and hit the start line with 60% would it be below 50% by the end of the day?

Clearly if your natural levels fluctuate significantly on a daily basis then it would be difficult to measure .

Bri