CR - Saturday 8th November

[quote="Paul H"]
Like Sylv, I was not aware Marek punctured. The number of riders in the Training Group can thin out as we go along so it is hard to keep track of everybody.

[Sylv]

"The sprint should not be contested by anyone of the lesser racing categories"

[Michelle]

The idea was for me, RobH and Marky Mark to go off on our own and do our zone training without 'disturbing' anyone else or them disturbing us. Also Rob said he needed a change from the normal CR route. As it was, no Mark today, apparently doing his time on the turbo at home so just me and Mr LBP. I got a puncture about 2 minutes in, Rob very aggreeably dove right in and took charge, but I ended up doing the 250 pumps to put the pressure back in so I wasn't too lazy.

A nice change from the normal roads, had forgotten there are little roads over to Chipstead. Pretty scary going down Reigate Hill though ( my nemesis everyday sitting in traffic for work). Rob was trying to do 170 rpm - 'felt like my hips were going to explode'. Then I had to stop (at work) to adjust my saddle.

Down the one way system in Reigate, across the Angel PH crossroads and south to Sidlow, then we picked up the small lanes leading to Charlwood. Despite making the cafe at 10.56 am we were the last there so only had 10 mins to scoff my sandwich and make myself look beautiful again before out into the rain with Keith.

A much faster ride back home, and that tailwind was delicious. Keith left me with 15 minutes to go, in order to put the central heating on, nice man.

As I said to Huw later, I got very wet but I was always smiling

[PeteS]

I'm with Adam, Djembi, Marek and Andrew on the subject of punctures and other mechanicals. I had 2 punctures yesterday and both times I had the benefit of Ian and Phil's company. It really is a thankless task, especially in the rain, mending a puncture then batting on alone into a headwind. Like Adam, I have never ridden with any club before that doesn't wait for puncture victims, perhaps it's time that we examined what we want from the clubrun, is it just a group of individuals dog eat dog or are we, on Saturday at least, a club that looks after each other.

[Marek]

Fair enough, it sounds like no one realised I punctured, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I quite like the dog eat dog part in relation to the training group, its just when you can't stay in because of a mechanical I think we should stop. If someone gets dropped due to fitness then we should leave them.

That has happened to me on enough occasions as well.

Cheers

Marek.....

[quote]I'm with Adam, Djembi, Marek and Andrew on the subject of punctures and other mechanicals.

[djembi]

Is it only the training group that gets punctures?

[Paul H]

was your post not about the training group?

[quote="Keith"][quote="Adam"]
There's a few other club run ethics that could be addressed too mind...

[Andrew G]

Sorry Paul didn't mean to open a can of worms here, seems difficult not to these days . I couldn't agree more that the whole point of the TG is to have a hard ride and rip each others legs off and I have seen everyone waiting by the side of the road before. I only said what I did following Marek's post as a matter of raising general awareness for those that may not be as versed in club etiquette, newer members etc. If you've got your ears pinned back in the TG then obviously it's not always as easy to either hear a shout or know if someone is just slipping back a bit due to a bad patch and try and make them suffer some more, or due to a soft rear end.

I agree with a lot of what you say about some standards Adam. As a VC I do try and shout out from time to time or keep things organised (if a non-training group) but if someone wants to do their own thing then I try and keep the rest of the group to doing what the ride is stated as (a steady 18s for example) and just ignore whoever has decided they want to yo-yo off the front, albeit I will try and say (if I get the chance) that it would be better if they rode with the rest as per the type of ride it was "advertised" as.

Riders should only be 2 abreast and I know you've mentioned in the past that this hasn't always been the case. Having only been an infrequent CR-er during the TT season it is only in recent weeks that I've been back. I have no problem with people riding at different speeds up the Gatton triple and then soft tapping over the top to re-group but this should not mean going 3 or 4 wide across the road to overtake people as if it's a closed road, there are often cars behind up that stretch of road and they do quite rightly get pissed off with it.

The club run sprint is another area where I've noticed some heads down wide riding round a blind bend, not good for your health or the club's reputation. You should never go outside the left hand lane in the sprint and certainly not before the final straight when you can see the road is completely clear. It is the CR, not a race.

At the end of the day the role of VC is voluntary and I don't want to be having what I consider largely unnecessary arguments on the road with people, so long as the riding isn't a danger to anyone else in the group. If that means I should stop being a VC so be it.
[quote="Adam"]So really, riding in a group is not rocket science, it's just about consideration for the rest of you're group.

[Keith]

Adam, it sounds like both sides of the agreement may need a reminder?:

• 
  All riders who choose to join a speed regulated group should be aware that attacking riding isn't what the group ride is about, and


• 
  All VC's shouldn't be afraid to keep their group together, letting any attacking riders go and do their own thing. VCs have a somtimes difficult job, and the rest of us could back them up in this point. Also they could reiterate the group riding ethic to any attackers, pointing out that there's plenty of opportunities for this style of riding in both the A and B Training Groups.

[Amy]

Well, hopefully, we'll get people along to Huw's cycle skills sessions which will teach people about riding in a group - newbees will be asked to attend a session before they come out on a clubrun and existing members are encouraged to come along too

[quote]But I do feel the team of Vice Captains could, and should, do more to ensure that the group they take rides in the way it sets out too. Hell, this may even end the drama over average speeds

[Antloony]

I wonder whether its just a simple case of the groups being to big. The 18's seems to be the most popular and the numbers keep creeping up until your left with 16 plus riders in a group which in my opinion is way to large to A) control and manage and B) is a danger as it makes the group more difficult to get past by other road users esp through the lanes. Maybe limit group size to say 12 and leave 5 mins before setting off the next group. I guess in such large groups you'll always get a wide diverstity of strength and it can be a little frustrating sat on the wheel of some one that just dies at the first sniff of a hill knowing your meant to stick at their speed. If its kept sensible I see no harm in the odd little dig so long as the group reforms quickly afterwards, after all this isn't a bad way for people to improve a little strength wise which hopefully will enable them to eventually move up a group.

I also think sometimes people don't pay enough attention due to having a good chin wag which is great but when your gabbing away like Hilda Ogden you may not hear the calls for a rotate or a shout of steady or stop. Its all about awareness when riding in a group, Im sure 99% of us are more than capable (says he who nearly wiped out Mr today ) of riding in perfect formation down to the cafe, sometimes we just need a reminder to just take a little more care and be more aware of our surroundings and whats going on around us.

We're all there to have a good ride and enjoy ourselves so lets make it that way before it ends up becoming like some precision military drill complete with drill sargent VC barking orders at us. I for one don't want this and I feel it would put off newbies to the club straight away, last thing we need is to lose our monicker of The Agreeables.

As for the dreaded puncture stops, yes,in my recent experiences all etiquette seems to have flown out of the window the majority of the time. Maybe a rule of one stop we all stop should be implemented till at least untill someone volunteers to stay behind leaving the others to continue. I can honestly say 99% of the time I will and do stop to lend a hand though the past 4 times I'm the only one that has.

I'd love to continue but my teas on the table and I ain't missing home made beef casserole for nobody

[kieran]

well I did the off -road route on Saturday, dispite normally failing to make the 9am start for the usual club run I just about made it this morning, getting there at 8:40am after a very tiring battle against a headwind. The group finally consisted of me, Sue (?), Colum, Tim Coales with Aodan leading. A nice small group of 5. No punctures and no accidents (apart from Tim coming off on a very slippy algae covered bridge, and also attacking a tree at one stage). Up on the north downs the wind and rain was blowing a bit and no nice views as the clouds were quite low. This time there were no rocky routes but Aodan did bring us through a ploughed field near the start which completely clogged up my wheels, brakes and gears and I ended up walking. Aodan's bike, with suspension and disk brakes faired much better. greater clearance around the wheels with narrower tyres meant the clay/mud didn't stick.

We got to the cafe about 11:05 (a bit later than the planned 10:30) just in time to see everyone else leave, which meant no queues and a table by the radiators! Colum then headed for the train home whilst the rest of us headed back by the short route (no box hill today) with Tim in front a lot. It's so much slower on MTBs!

Anyway a good ride, got home by 2pm and cleaned the bike and replaced some brake pads.

[Amy]

[quote="Antloony"]I wonder whether its just a simple case of the groups being to big. The 18's seems to be the most popular and the numbers keep creeping up until your left with 16 plus riders in a group which in my opinion is way to large to A) control and manage and B) is a danger as it makes the group more difficult to get past by other road users esp through the lanes. Maybe limit group size to say 12 and leave 5 mins before setting off the next group. I guess in such large groups you'll always get a wide diverstity of strength and it can be a little frustrating sat on the wheel of some one that just dies at the first sniff of a hill knowing your meant to stick at their speed. If its kept sensible I see no harm in the odd little dig so long as the group reforms quickly afterwards, after all this isn't a bad way for people to improve a little strength wise which hopefully will enable them to eventually move up a group.

I also think sometimes people don't pay enough attention due to having a good chin wag which is great but when your gabbing away like Hilda Ogden you may not hear the calls for a rotate or a shout of steady or stop. Its all about awareness when riding in a group, Im sure 99% of us are more than capable (says he who nearly wiped out Mr today ) of riding in perfect formation down to the cafe, sometimes we just need a reminder to just take a little more care and be more aware of our surroundings and whats going on around us.

We're all there to have a good ride and enjoy ourselves so lets make it that way before it ends up becoming like some precision military drill complete with drill sargent VC barking orders at us. I for one don't want this and I feel it would put off newbies to the club straight away, last thing we need is to lose our monicker of The Agreeables.

As for the dreaded puncture stops, yes,in my recent experiences all etiquette seems to have flown out of the window the majority of the time. Maybe a rule of one stop we all stop should be implemented till at least untill someone volunteers to stay behind leaving the others to continue. I can honestly say 99% of the time I will and do stop to lend a hand though the past 4 times I'm the only one that has.

I'd love to continue but my teas on the table and I ain't missing home made beef casserole for nobody