BBC sports thingie...

[-Adam-]

So criminally damaging a vehicle which has actually caused no physical harm to me is ok?

If that is the lesson Addiscombe Cycling Club wishes to teach, so be it.

[-Adam-]

[quote="Sean Hogan - 何祥"]If you were placed in physical danger then as a reaction I think it is perfectly okay

[-Adam-]

Sean, I do.

It's just that if I took a wing mirror off every car that cuts in close to me, there'd be a lot of broken wing mirrors lying around causing punctures for everyone. It's not going to achieve anything other than to further antagonise the driver. What's your defence gonna be when they come after you and knock you off?

I just think that there are quite a lot of people with a kind of self righteous cycling warrior stance, that think that doing this sort of thing is ok, and it's not. Yes, cars generally treat cyclists badly, as you know, I know this only too well. Also, the Police seem generally disinterested with doing anything about this. Thats not to say taking matters into our own hands is going to help. The roads would generally be a lot safer if everyone chilled out a bit and realised that we're all just trying to get somewhere.

Think of it like being Ghandi, but on a bike...

[Andrew G]

no i can't sean not from here you're okay. Sorry seem to have started a fight. Being a natural coward i only ever shout oi or wave an arm in the air. As sylv said they might armed.

[Sylv]

I forgot the old favourite ... banging on their vehicle

Two small knocks to make them realise you are actually there

One big knock hoping they will think it's an impact on their car

[George]

Ant sounds like you need to come racing to get rid of all that pent up frustration.

I just ride around everywhere smiling "LOVE UP LOVE UP"

[Tony]

Ant, you should have put the windows through as well. Why did you let her off so lightly?

[kieran]

em, from my reading it seems that the driver did it deliberately so isn't dangerous driving an offence or intent to cause physical harm, intended assault with a dangerous weapon? probably a bit more serious than damage to a car?

Accidents happen and sometimes careless drivers get near you and I have been brushed by car wing mirrors and had my leg skinned by the mudguards on a trailed being pulled by a jeep but the big difference is the intention of the driver. Problem for Ants is trying to prove what the driver did, as I would gues she would say differently to the police and claim she didn't see him.

Also I don't think it is the lesson ACC wishes to teach, as far as I know we have given our personal opinions not an offical ACC stance? Go on bikeradar or veloriders and you'll get the same variety of opinion.

Anyway what this shows is that ACC people have different opinions and will react differently, for example I wouldn't have damaged the car but would have had a rant at her and reported her to the police for dangerous driving and chased it up, but I can understand where Ant is coming from.

[Toks]

mmm I can definitley relate to Ant's reaction given such provocation from that numbskull of a driver. In general though I'm with Adam. It's usually best not to inflame things coz you don't know the mindset of the person wielding half a ton of steel. In the past a white van driver has mounted the kerb to scare/chase me because I showed him the middle finger when he almost caused me to crash on my bike. It was early in the morning and if he had mowed me down there wouldn't have been any witnesses...Switching to work mode and putting on my 'behavioural therapy' hat lets look at the counter side. How often do you praise/thank drivers for showing due care and attention while your cycling (even though, yes they should be doing it anyway ) I always do. This I believe is more likely to engender a 'be-nice-to-cyclists' ethos better than any ad campaign.

[Sylv]

Especially for you Ant

[img]http://myvespa.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/mod-oa.jpg[/img]

[Alan M]

Maybe the hostage to fortune here is a public admission of criminal damage!

On the whole I believe that there should be consequences to actions but sober reflection would probably judge that neither perpetrators emerge well from this exchange.

I have in mind 3 classes of response to badly behaved drivers, reportable, swearable and forgetable. On this occasion I would neither report it or forget it!

[quote="Sean Hogan - 何祥"][quote="Toks"] .....Switching to work mode and putting on my 'behavioural therapy' hat lets look at the counter side. How often do you praise/thank drivers for showing due care and attention while your cycling (even though, yes they should be doing it anyway ) I always do. This I believe is more likely to engender a 'be-nice-to-cyclists' ethos better than any ad campaign.

[Antloony]

Well looks my actions opened a can of worms.

The way I saw it at the time and still do now is this. This woman delibrately drove at me and forced me off the road. I did Sylvs tatic of the old knocking on the car and shouting but she just glanced across and carried on moving over towards me, she was quite prepared to damage her car by knocking me off so I just granted her wish and did the job for her. Simple as that. If it had been a genuine accident and she hadn't seen me then I would have just told her to keep her eyes peeled for cyclists. The fact is SHE WANTED ME OUT OFF THE ROAD BY ANY MEANS. I tried to talk to her and ask her politely what was she doing only to be told I was in her way and I should learn how to ride a bike.

Adam, I doubt she'll go out trying to kill a cyclist, she'll just carry on the way she is, being an ignorant driver but this time her ignorance has cost her a few quid.

Live by the sword, die by the sword I say.

As for thanking motorists who give way to me or show me respect by waiting to overtake me when its safe, I always stick up a hand to thank them.

[Antloony]

[quote="Sylv"]Especially for you Ant

[img]http://myvespa.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/mod-oa.jpg[/img]

[kieran]

bet some drivers would still not see you!