Alberto Contador

[Toks]

I really do want to believe that he is a phenominal stage racer. Le mond and others are yet to be convinced. What do you guys reckon? There's an artricle by Lemond below - can anyone offer a quick summary in English

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports/article/20 ... _3242.html

[Snoop Doug]

Mrs Snoop observed that AC was continually adjusting his riding position throughout the TT yesterday. Barely a second passed without him shuffleth his butt up and down the saddle (whatever gets you through the night...) Imagine how much quicker he coulda gone if the team had given him a bike that fitted him properly?

[Grahame]

I think Astana got the bikes mixed up (or Tex's ego ran away with him) 'cos big Tex was riding the yellow bike, despite Bertie being in the jersey.

[Snoop Doug]

[quote="Grahame"]I think Astana got the bikes mixed up (or Tex's ego ran away with him) 'cos big Tex was riding the yellow bike, despite Bertie being in the jersey.

[Sylv]

This article Lemond refers to suggests Contador's Vo2 max has to be 99.5ml/mn/kg http://www.liberation.fr/sports/0101580 ... terrestres (see also VAM and power figures mentioned elsewhere here)

Contador has eschewed such questions about his Vo2 max the other day and refused to give any views on doping

Lemond says the performance is so sub-human it is up to him to prove us he is clean

In the Festina trial it has been shown that riders with Vo2 max in the 70s had been able to boost it into the 90s

[Sylv]

[quote="Grahame"]I think Astana got the bikes mixed up (or Tex's ego ran away with him) 'cos big Tex was riding the yellow bike, despite Bertie being in the jersey.

[Toks]

Cheers Sylv

[Robh]

Juerg @ Fact has made a comment about this article, excuse the poor written English :-

Here is another example, which shows, that there is very little progress made in the view on VO2 since Costill et all 1971.
Why . In the year 1969 Derek Clayton run a world record in marathon of incredible 2.08.34.
Incredible as the assumed , that his VO2 max must be 80 and higher . Reality was that Costill measured a VO2 max of 69.7.
As an example Joan Benoit run n the year 1992 a marathon for women's in 2h 24.52. . Her VO2 max was 78.6. And a few years back a cyclist L. A run a marathon just under 3 h with a VO2 max of 85.
Now over nearly 35 years later they still discuss maximal VO2 values in absurd um to proof what. The only physiological info is the % of VO2 the athlete can use at this high intensity . This is direct dependent on the optimal function of the cardiac hemodynamic with an optimal team work of respiration and musculoskeletal action controlled by the CNS.
So here the discussion from the "Pro's " LeMond's criticism arose after former Festina team trainer Antoine Vayer calculated Contador's VO2 max (his aerobic capacity) at 99.5 based on the Spaniard's time of 20:55 to ascend to the summit. Vayer, writing in Liberation.fr, based his calculation on an estimated 490 watt average he said Contador would have needed to accomplish that feat..
So the discussion is ongoing but of very little value, as the simple task is not addressed.
VO2 = CO x ( a- V ) O2 difference, with a big part of the end result depending on the CO and the CO depending on much more than wattage.
Remember : CO = SV x HR.
The HR is dependent on different situations like LVET for example.
SV is dependent on the EDV, preload and so on and EF %.
So an interesting part is the RPM where we see, that a slower RPM may have a different influence on EDV.
Now you move to the (a-v) O2 difference and you have a big set of variables , which can make a big difference on this side of the equation.
As long we are stuck on maximal comparisons of physical information like wattage and maximal VO2 numbers we will have an ongoing discussion on Drug or not drug.
The key would be to really assess this top athletes physiologically different to see, what kind of structural difference they really have.
Just some thoughts from the Bush in the north of Canada.

[Robh]

[quote="marco"]I wish I understood all of those abbreviations. LVET, CO and EDV etc. One thing I wonder about in Jeurg's article is how can he be certain that the people he is using as anecdotal evidence weren't themselves employing blood manipulation techniques on the day?

[Toks]

[quote="Sylv"]This article Lemond refers to suggests Contador's Vo2 max has to be 99.5ml/mn/kg http://www.liberation.fr/sports/0101580 ... terrestres (see also VAM and power figures mentioned elsewhere here)

[Roy Green]

My response to the opening post: stuff Lemond. And all the internet posting, blogging nonsense. Follow the racing - it's been great this year. Then watch for the OFFICIAL testing results. That's all that counts.

[nick de meyer]

no one has ever had a vo2 max of 99 as far as i can remember, cross country skiers are high 80's, which is harder as an aerobic sport than cycling, and in icy cold conditions making it harder to breath, and lance was supposedly the highest ever cyclist, its his watts per kg that is the factor to look at, see below that 6.7watts/ kg wins the tour de france

PezCycling has an essay by Dr. Stephen Cheung, Ph.D., who takes a look inside numbers from the physiological study of Lance Armstrong that made the news

In Lance Armstrong's War, Daniel Coyle quotes that shortly before the 2004 Tour, Armstrong was 74 kgs and 493 watts (that's at lactate threshold, which the lab measured at 6.1 liters/minute in 1993). Coyle quotes the “magic number” for Tour contenders is 6.7 watts per kilogram of body weight.

2009 contador is at 6.7 watts/kg, armstrong is at 6.35 watts /kg producing 450watts at threshold, with contador at 417 watts, being lighter, sorry but its that simple
ullrich was reputed to push 497 but was heavier than armstrong
i open the debate further i guess...
i'm at 3.8 watts / kg so i have a long way to go until i push 6.7 i don't think....but worth dreaming for a while

[Robh]

Marco,

A question for Greg Lemond:-

"Why when I can push over 500 watts and have a VO2 max of 85 I am not able to even stay in a Cat 1 race at the front?

So what answer do you give him after this person has just pushed a higher Body weight ratio at his University Lab and has an equal VO2 max as Lance Armstrong?"

[Robh]

[quote="nick de meyer"]2009 contador is at 6.7 watts/kg, armstrong is at 6.35 watts /kg producing 450watts at threshold, with contador at 417 watts, being lighter, sorry but its that simple
ullrich was reputed to push 497 but was heavier than armstrong
i open the debate further i guess...

[Sylv]

Just like Toks, he has a blog

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... -know.html