The key component to Road Racing: LT?

[Robh]

Juerg knows the above table very well as it was discussed on the FaCT forum a few months ago. Look forward to his response...As I know the answer and your not going to like it Toks...

Hope you have recovered from your recent cold? Might need some Vit C yourself

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]Juerg knows the above table very well as it was discussed on the FaCT forum a few months ago. Look forward to his response...As I know the answer and your not going to like it Toks...

Hope you have recovered from your recent cold? Might need some Vit C yourself

[Robh]

Nice book for you to read Toks...

http://www.velonews.com/article/11392

And also have a read of Cycling Plus Nov 2008 page 54 "Best ever winter"

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]Nice book for you to read Toks...

http://www.velonews.com/article/11392

[Juerg FaCT]

Great discussion , and I like te comparison from the swiss sun and the spanish sun.
In both cases , if you go and stay too often and too long in the sun you have a perfect example of an functional reaction going wrong , due to an overload. You get red , blister and burn.
If you do a proper (recovery) in between you may have a chance to get some functional reaction, which go in the good direction and you may have a protection the next time.
Same with workouts as Paul explains. If you are adapted to 200 watts you have to go higherintensities.
Question is :
Do you adapt to 200 watt or do you adapta certain systems to be able to push 200 watt.
I can prodcuce 200 watt for different lengthof time and with different physiological systems involved.
This is exactly the point , why 200 watt is not an optimal way of using intensities. (better why watt is not a good way of using intensities.
I will sebt some newest research info to show that nicely.
Simple example. I can push 200 watt by using mainly STF fibres. or By using mainly FTF fiberes.
Or by using amixture.
I can push 200 wattas by breathing a very slow RR or a very fast.
I can push 200 watt with a very high RPM or a very low RPM
Now what is the point here.
200 watt with a low RPM will stimulate different organ systems , compared with high RPM In both cases it is 200 watt, but the outcome of the workout in functional, and if done properly in structural information and results will be very different.
Wecan show nicely , that a change in TV (Tidal volume ) at a given watt level will change the way you useenergy due tothe change in O2 transportation.
Check in the Que CERA CERA forum, and think , why this works so well. Will be a nice discussion where you can see , taht achange in O2 supply will imediatly change the wattage output. Well if 200 watt or what ever watt your zone is hasnothing to do with ophysiological reaction the CERAand any other O2 supply help would do nill.
To Pauls concern , that every body will now go slow.
This is avery good point , and as so often people fall from one extreme tothe other. That's where the FaCT testing comes in . We push very hard as well as soon weseethe trend in the performance line is drifting in specific area.I am sure we will come back tothat over the wiinter.
How often and how long slow . Well , as long you see positive reactions in the test result you keep going.
Once you reach a certain brown skin after sun tanning you may not change anymore.
I think we have to watch, that we stay foccused on discussiong pro and cons on fast and slow and not trying to defend our own beliefes, as this is what often happens. Wattage workouts have a very good place in cycling or in any sport where we can objectively assess perfomance and the optimal idea wouldbe tocombine wattageand physiological info to create the optimal individual training approach.
We use in our camps wattage trainersand watt druing rides , so the groups resp. the people can choose where to go and know what the stress.
Example ": we have 10 groups:
group 1 with a wattage intensity of 150 group 2 170 group 3 190 and so on. The group guide will have a SRM or any wattage device.
The client has a FaCT test.
So if he plans to do a STF workout he can take his test and seehe ratio watt / bodyweight.
Let's say STF middle zone is ratio 2.o and he is 75 kg heavy and he likes to ride today a STF intensity in a group he will go group 150 if he likes to ride in front with the guide or hemay go 170 - 190 if he stayes in the group draft and thereis a flat training ride.If it is amountain pass, than hemay go 150 watt.
This way you can work ot with different people.
The ride may be 150 km with a stp by 50 and 100 km and a bus.
So a weaker client may like to do a FF abive LBP ride ratio for him 3.0and 50 kg heavy . So he has by a 150 watt aworkout for his FTF and will go in the bus by 50 km , if he can see , that certain biomarker tell him you have now overloaded and the goal is reached you stress the target FTF fibres and you now need a recovery time. The other client with ratio 2.0 and STF goal willride the 100 km re-assessthe biomarkerand will quit or will finish, depending on his goals and the plan for the upcoming days.
Summary : !50 watt isnot always thesame inetnsity even tough it is always 150 watt. Depending on your physiologica goals you can stress by the same wattage different systems. This is the weak part of watt as it is only a physical info, and a physiological system can change the way we produce this physical performance. Exception: Allout , where youhave nochoiuce, but relay onall systems to try at least to support this incredible effort.
Once you go slower you have alwasy so0me space for playing with different system and therefor "manipulating " different outcomes.
It may sound very crazy, but a few years back peoplewould argue , that you can't "manipulate the breathing. Today we know it is avery nice way ofchangeing certain physiological reactions.
We are justnow herin Calgary testing the possibility to whether wecan even "manipulate" certain cardic reactions like Strokevolume and EDV with different RPMand musvcletensions as well as with breathing.
Some of this research is now already on the FaCT Forum under Physioflow and last but not least:
The list from PH.D Coggan is multiple discussed in our Forum so read theresome critical and positive views on this topics. Juerg Sorry typos but it is dark here and I jsut arrived from the airport and I am getting ready for a workout . Short and intenses smile

[Robh]

[quote="Juerg FaCT"]
The list from PH.D Coggan is multiple discussed in our Forum so read theresome critical and positive views on this topics. Juerg Sorry typos but it is dark here and I jsut arrived from the airport and I am getting ready for a workout . Short and intenses smile

[Paul H]

Juerg,

Are you able to answer the following:

[quote]Problem : Your structure never will increase due to just functional workouts. You will stay on 10 fibres and in a bad case may loose due to age or overtraining a few. If you try to find intensities , which help you to add some more fibres up to 12 or 13 you will have a hiigher ability to use 80 % from 12 and will possibly perform better.

[-Adam-]

[size=200]The key component to Road Racing?[/size]

[size=150]It's all in the mind.[/size]

[Toks]

[quote="Juerg FaCT"]
The list from PH.D Coggan is multiple discussed in our Forum so read theresome critical and positive views on this topics. Juerg Sorry typos but it is dark here and I jsut arrived from the airport and I am getting ready for a workout . Short and intenses smile

[quote="Toks"][quote="Juerg FaCT"]
The list from PH.D Coggan is multiple discussed in our Forum so read theresome critical and positive views on this topics. Juerg Sorry typos but it is dark here and I jsut arrived from the airport and I am getting ready for a workout . Short and intenses smile

[Juerg FaCT]

Fibre is actually a bad example as we still fight over the idea, whether we can add more muscle fibres or only activate more.
A better example would be heart size , resp, Stroke volume. We can discuss that later once we get more familiar with questions and my swenglish. XCan I feel LBP yes many of you guys can feel that , but it is nice once in a while to confirm the feeling .

Hey Paul This is actually the answer on the Forum at the end of my short explanations. So I name the questions ( see on the FaCT Forum in the intro to Andrew Coggans welcome) often "selective" reading or reading , what we like to hear.
Better would be to use the example as recruitment of muscle fibers with EMG assessments.
In that combination "recruitment" wecould go sofar and claim, that certain workouts may infact change the recruitment pattern of your working muscles.
We see, that as soon you reach the by now famouse CGM level a drop in recruitment in your working muscles, possibly as a protective mechanism for your more vital organs.
So by choosing too often too hard workouts , kicking in to often the CGM may in fact start to loose control over muscle fiber activation, by using only the oncce , whocan sustaine this intensity level ,and the rest may infact run intotrouble.
Again check the interesting picture of Rhabdomyeloisis in combination withhigh performance problems.

[MattI]

Ah, yes. EMG assessments and the famouse (sic) CGM level with some Rhabdomyeloisis.
it's all become staggering clear now.
Why didn't you say this before?

[Toks]

[quote="Juerg FaCT"]Fibre is actually a bad example as we still fight over the idea, whether we can add more muscle fibres or only activate more.
A better example would be heart size , resp, Stroke volume. We can discuss that later once we get more familiar with questions and my swenglish. XCan I feel LBP yes many of you guys can feel that , but it is nice once in a while to confirm the feeling .

Hey Paul This is actually the answer on the Forum at the end of my short explanations. So I name the questions ( see on the FaCT Forum in the intro to Andrew Coggans welcome) often "selective" reading or reading , what we like to hear.
Better would be to use the example as recruitment of muscle fibers with EMG assessments.
In that combination "recruitment" wecould go sofar and claim, that certain workouts may infact change the recruitment pattern of your working muscles.
We see, that as soon you reach the by now famouse CGM level a drop in recruitment in your working muscles, possibly as a protective mechanism for your more vital organs.
So by choosing too often too hard workouts , kicking in to often the CGM may in fact start to loose control over muscle fiber activation, by using only the oncce , whocan sustaine this intensity level ,and the rest may infact run intotrouble.
Again check the interesting picture of Rhabdomyeloisis in combination withhigh performance problems.

[Robh]

Juerg told me he's not PC literate...So bear with him...

[Toks]

[quote="Robh"]
Even Coggan doesn't understand!
Rob